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RKO Marks and marketing. Or how EXO OWNED the Internet~!
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 02:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default RKO Marks and marketing. Or how EXO OWNED the Internet~!

Randy Ortons target audience is teens and young males 15-21. I won't get to far into the specifics of marketing and how they use demographics and market R&D to create brands that appeal to a specific target. It's much too complicated and boring for a full length discussion. But needless to say, it is the typical MTV, generation cry, Millenial aspiring, teens. They are not dissilusioned, although that's the image they try to portray. No, they are fully entrenched in the righteousness of their causes, having been raised to believe that they're reality is the one in which all exist. Which makes them a fairly easy audience to manipulate. Particularly if you create an "anti-__________" for them to cling onto. They will always go with the alternate. Because they crave individuality. Ironically, it's that exact pretense which makes marketing to them so exciting. It's because corporations know they can create, at whim, something that they can sell to that demographic. And they are so skilled at it, that they know how to package and sell it in a way that their audience doesn't even realize what's happened.

Let's it put it this way. Hot Topic and The Gap are the same exact thing. At least from a business perspective. They are just marketed differently.

Let's set that aside for a minute and look at who is an Orton mark here on pwf.

Dr Doom - 21
Rated R - 16
One - 17
David - 19
v2 - 20
Some other kid, I can't remember his name. He is like 16 or something.

Anyways, what does this data tell me? That WWE and Vince have cleverly used Randy Orton to appeal to this particular demographic, and quite successfully. They see Orton as the anti-Cena. They believe John Cena is for little kids. They believe John Cena is too pushed. So, they band together, as expected, to rally behind the guy who is anti-establishment, and anti-kid friendly. It is hilarious, at least to someone like me, to watch Vince once again market another "superstar" out to his marks. And because this particular demographic is so righteous in their beliefs, they can't even see how easily they've been duped. They will gladly throw down $25 for a shirt that says Orton on it because they're so desperate to be anti-Cena, not even realizing that it was already Vince and by default, John Cena who reached into their pocket and took it from them. It is similar to how TOWC:JC created a movement so strong that we knew from day one we would put together some marks who would try to stop us. Regardless of the fact that they can't stop anything, they still believe in what they're doing and how they're privy to some sort of uniqueness. And they know that they are right, regardless of mountains of evidence to the contrary. Which is something else to find hilarious.

Kinda like how Goth kids all reject sociatal norms for induviduality, yet they are completely indistiguishable from each other. And boring...

Now let's briefly look at Cena's fans. They span the spectrum. They are 5 year old kids that believe wrestling is real. They are 45 year old moms. They are men from 21 - forever. Mostly though, they are people that enjoy wrestling. They aren't looking for a cause. They aren't looking for some underground movement. They are people who are aware of what they're watching and know how to properly enjoy. Because they are less likely to latch on to the latest trend or fad, they are much more loyal and as a consequence, harder to market to. Or manipulate, if you're Vince. So, Cena appeals to everyone, while Orton appeals to a select marketed demographic and buyer.

Don't feel too bad. Jeff Hardy's demographic is pretty similar, except mostly female.

Sometimes you people forget that WWE is a corporation. They are the exact same big corporation as any other. They are selling you a product. 99% of Ortons market is a direct result of Cena. You could dumb it down enough for an Orton mark to say this. Without Cena, Orton doesn't exist. It's hard for an Orton mark to understand how and why they've been catered to. They simply don't understand the workings of these things well enough. Whereas a Cena fan, like myself and those in TOWC:JC, have an inate ability to recognize and appreciate what we are watching and how it works. We find joy in seeing people boo Cena. Because we know that those people are being played by Vince. It's absolutely brilliant. And then when they go running to the anti-hero, like Vince expects them too, it makes it even more enjoyable.

So the next time some Orton mark says asinine things like "Cena only appeals to kids!" and then says how they're a true wrestling fan(WTF?) try to remind them of how they're particular idol was put together by a team of marketers and creatives with the very objective to target them. It is no different than the way music companies market Britney Spears and then turn around and sell some other anti-band. They create a product to sell to one audience, then turn around and use the backlash to sell something else. Seriously, this shit is fascinating to me.

Randy Orton, the Anti-Cena, proudly brought to you by Vince, Trips, WWE, a bunch of stockholders, and made entirely possible by John Cena.

I guess that makes John Cena your daddy. You should change your name to Team Our Daddy Is: John Cena.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 02:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Too bad that... A) I don't buy wrestling t-shirts... period B) the idea of Randy Orton causing an "Underground movement" is laughable and C) Randy Orton was being pushed as a monster heel while John Cena was still on Smackdown as a mid-carder.

I'm not trying to stop you guys from anything though. I just believe that if half the board is going to be Cena marks then why not have half the board be Orton marks? If people wanted to they could make a TOWC: Edge or Mysterio or Batista or Undertaker or CM Punk or any other world champion or ex-world champion wrestler they mark out for I'd be all for it. To me it doesn't matter although clearly some Orton marks are more passionate about this "online beef" than I am. Personally I don't care. If you guys want to joke about Cena being a God I'm all for it. Personally I think the Cena takeover on PWF is funny. I'm just in TOWC:RKO for the ride.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 03:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Too bad that... A) I don't buy wrestling t-shirts... period B) the idea of Randy Orton causing an "Underground movement" is laughable and C) Randy Orton was being pushed as a monster heel while John Cena was still on Smackdown as a mid-carder.

I'm not trying to stop you guys from anything though. I just believe that if half the board is going to be Cena marks then why not have half the board be Orton marks? If people wanted to they could make a TOWC: Edge or Mysterio or Batista or Undertaker or CM Punk or any other world champion or ex-world champion wrestler they mark out for I'd be all for it. To me it doesn't matter although clearly some Orton marks are more passionate about this "online beef" than I am. Personally I don't care. If you guys want to joke about Cena being a God I'm all for it. Personally I think the Cena takeover on PWF is funny. I'm just in TOWC:RKO for the ride.
This post is important as it verifies the accuracy of my intial analysis. Note the "Anti-__________" attitude clearly evident in the bold section. It is the fundamental basis of this entire demographic. Painfully obvious. Next, observe the falsly dissilusioned / "I don't really give a shit" attitude. I made special mention of this early in my post for a reason. It gets to the very core of what this group is all about. Never belive them when they say "I don't care," because if it were true, why would they spend the energy on something as insignificant as being contrarian?
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 04:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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This post is important as it verifies the accuracy of my intial analysis. Note the "Anti-__________" attitude clearly evident in the bold section. It is the fundamental basis of this entire demographic. Painfully obvious. Next, observe the falsly dissilusioned / "I don't really give a shit" attitude. I made special mention of this early in my post for a reason. It gets to the very core of what this group is all about. Never belive them when they say "I don't care," because if it were true, why would they spend the energy on something as insignificant as being contrarian?
I'm not saying your wrong persay I mean I'm sure alot of people like Randy Orton because he is the anti-Cena but for me I've always been a fan of him so Cena's comeback has nothing to do with my affiliation with this stable. If there was an Orton stable back in 2004 I would've joined it and at that time there was no "Cena" so to spoke for Orton. I root for the bad guy regardless of who their opponent is because I happen to like bad guys more often not cause they're Anti-____. Edge is a good example of this, he hasn't feuded with John Cena in about two years but that doesn't matter to me. I'm thrilled to see Edge have the world heavyweight title on smackdown just like I'm glad to see Randy Orton as WWE champion. Saying that all of us Orton marks have been "duped" is somewhat contradictory because I could argue that all of the Cena marks have been "duped" because they're feeding into the hype machine that Vince McMahon has created as he's trying to establish Cena as the top dog and as a result Cena fans are throwing their money into this hype machine not realizing that they're feeding the same superstar they've seen 1000 times already. John Cena is not John Cena. John Cena is Steve Austin and the Rock in essence. He's the same generic "good guy with a bad attitude" who spouts the same "I won't do what you tell me to do" (or in this case "You want some come get some") lines every single week and gets portrayed as the underdog despite winning every title match that comes his way. The difference between Austin and Cena is that Austin had a skull on all of his merchandise... for John Cena the WWE opted to use a bulldog. The mass merchandising of the Cena logo is unquestionable. It's a brilliant money making formula but it does have it's consequences. Mainly, those who do not fall head over heel for Cena and throw their money at him are sick of him. As such they root for guys like Orton who ultimately are the underdogs. So in this sense you're right. Orton has the interest of a lot of fans because they want someone to stand up to Cena and defeat him. But I digress... I like Randy Orton because I want to see him beat everybody. His status as anti-hero or anti-Cena doesn't contribute to my attitude although if he were a babyface I must admit he would not be as entertaining. As long as he's RKO'ing somebody and main eventing I'm set
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 05:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm not saying your wrong persay I mean I'm sure alot of people like Randy Orton because he is the anti-Cena but for me I've always been a fan of him so Cena's comeback has nothing to do with my affiliation with this stable. If there was an Orton stable back in 2004 I would've joined it and at that time there was no "Cena" so to spoke for Orton. I root for the bad guy regardless of who their opponent is because I happen to like bad guys more often not cause they're Anti-____. Edge is a good example of this, he hasn't feuded with John Cena in about two years but that doesn't matter to me. I'm thrilled to see Edge have the world heavyweight title on smackdown just like I'm glad to see Randy Orton as WWE champion. Saying that all of us Orton marks have been "duped" is somewhat contradictory because I could argue that all of the Cena marks have been "duped" because they're feeding into the hype machine that Vince McMahon has created as he's trying to establish Cena as the top dog and as a result Cena fans are throwing their money into this hype machine not realizing that they're feeding the same superstar they've seen 1000 times already. John Cena is not John Cena. John Cena is Steve Austin and the Rock in essence. He's the same generic "good guy with a bad attitude" who spouts the same "I won't do what you tell me to do" (or in this case "You want some come get some") lines every single week and gets portrayed as the underdog despite winning every title match that comes his way. The difference between Austin and Cena is that Austin had a skull on all of his merchandise... for John Cena the WWE opted to use a bulldog. The mass merchandising of the Cena logo is unquestionable. It's a brilliant money making formula but it does have it's consequences. Mainly, those who do not fall head over heel for Cena and throw their money at him are sick of him. As such they root for guys like Orton who ultimately are the underdogs. So in this sense you're right. Orton has the interest of a lot of fans because they want someone to stand up to Cena and defeat him. But I digress... I like Randy Orton because I want to see him beat everybody. His status as anti-hero or anti-Cena doesn't contribute to my attitude although if he were a babyface I must admit he would not be as entertaining. As long as he's RKO'ing somebody and main eventing I'm set


You'll notice the "I root for the bad guy regardless..." statement. The underlying tone is that no matter who or what is the supposed "good guy," this group will go in the opposite direction. Not for any reason other than "I root for the bad guy regardless..." This physiological trademark is fundamental. The pattern is so frequent that it makes the behavior almost predictable. It is the anti-________ mentality summed up perfectly. It makes this demographic feel unique. But like I had eluded to regarding the Goth kids, they are all really the same. It also adds credibility to the argument that if Cena was a heel, his haters would be fans. That's what makes him so valuable. Meanwhile, if Orton goes face, his fans admittedly will turn on him. Because of course, they will go with the opposite direction of what they perceive to be the popular opinion.

The other thing to really point out is the claim to be on to a particular fad before it supposedly started. In this case, the claim that being a fan of Randy Orton in 2004. While not entirely unique, as when the bandwagon starts to fill up, a number of members will claim to have been into something before everyone else (once again, because they wish to be seen as unique or ahead of the trend). It is worth noting, in 2004 Randy Orton was a face in a feud with Trips. Orton was failing miserably in this role and was mercifully cut short by all involved. By the end of 2004, Orton was barely on life support. He was feuding with Christian and dating Stacey Keibler. Randy Orton was a flop out of Evolution and Batista was becoming the star. There was no such thing as a Randy Orton support club in 2004. Thus making this claim false, which is typical. Just ask any goth kid, and they'll tell you they were goth before anyone else. This is typical with this group and should not be very surprising to anyone to see such ridiculous claims.

This post adds a certain amount of credibility to my statements, as much of it justifies what I've been saying with a fair amount of generosity. It also adds allows me to add on to a couple of points I vaguely glossed over initially.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 05:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My being a mark for Orton doesn't have anything to do with Cena. I was huge for Orton back in 04 when he won the title..Back when he had that outstanding match with Foley at Backlash.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 05:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Cena is marketed to 5-13 year old boys and 12 - 35 year old girls.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 06:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Cena is marketed to 5-13 year old boys and 12 - 35 year old girls.

orton is marketed to men and women, ages 1 - all.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 06:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You'll notice the "I root for the bad guy regardless..." statement. The underlying tone is that no matter who or what is the supposed "good guy," this group will go in the opposite direction. Not for any reason other than "I root for the bad guy regardless..." This physiological trademark is fundamental. The pattern is so frequent that it makes the behavior almost predictable. It is the anti-________ mentality summed up perfectly. It makes this demographic feel unique. But like I had eluded to regarding the Goth kids, they are all really the same. It also adds credibility to the argument that if Cena was a heel, his haters would be fans. That's what makes him so valuable. Meanwhile, if Orton goes face, his fans admittedly will turn on him. Because of course, they will go with the opposite direction of what they perceive to be the popular opinion.

The other thing to really point out is the claim to be on to a particular fad before it supposedly started. In this case, the claim that being a fan of Randy Orton in 2004. While not entirely unique, as when the bandwagon starts to fill up, a number of members will claim to have been into something before everyone else (once again, because they wish to be seen as unique or ahead of the trend). It is worth noting, in 2004 Randy Orton was a face in a feud with Trips. Orton was failing miserably in this role and was mercifully cut short by all involved. By the end of 2004, Orton was barely on life support. He was feuding with Christian and dating Stacey Keibler. Randy Orton was a flop out of Evolution and Batista was becoming the star. There was no such thing as a Randy Orton support club in 2004. Thus making this claim false, which is typical. Just ask any goth kid, and they'll tell you they were goth before anyone else. This is typical with this group and should not be very surprising to anyone to see such ridiculous claims.

This post adds a certain amount of credibility to my statements, as much of it justifies what I've been saying with a fair amount of generosity. It also adds allows me to add on to a couple of points I vaguely glossed over initially.
No, heel Cena would still be shitty to me. I root for the bad guy... that doesn't mean I root for all bad guys. Khali and Snitsky may both be heels... but they both suck. I honestly wouldn't like Cena either way. As far as Orton having no support in 2004 I think it's a general consensus on any wrestling forum that he was robbed of the heavyweight championship and deserved a lengthy run. There are very few "markout" moments for me but Orton reversing the crippler crossface into the RKO to defeat Benoit at SS 04 was a mark out moment for me. I'm not going to deny that his run as a babyface sucked- it did. But if it gave wrestling fans anything at all it was at least a classic match up featuring Ric Flair vs Randy Orton at Taboo Tuesday 2004. As far as Batista goes, I think the main reason Batista got the huge push that he did in 2005 was because the WWE writers wanted to push Orton but knew they fucked up his face run BADLY. So instead of trying to correct their mistakes they simply chose to push Evolution member #2 and get it right the second time around with Batista.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 06:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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My being a mark for Orton doesn't have anything to do with Cena. I was huge for Orton back in 04 when he won the title..Back when he had that outstanding match with Foley at Backlash.
Another "I was a fan before..." statement. As I've noted, this is typical behaviour and should be expected. Although, it is particularly disapointing coming from this poster.

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Cena is marketed to 5-13 year old boys and 12 - 35 year old girls.
And what is the basis of this stunning commentary? Hard to take this seriously from somebody with a room full of Sailor Moon cartonns. BTW, you're too old to be an Orton mark.

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orton is marketed to men and women, ages 1 - all.
Typical un-educated and unfounded statement by this particular demographic. This is why Vince doesn't listen to the fans. Because, as he's noted, the fan's don't know what they want. It also speaks to the attention span of this group. You can't expect them to be focused long enough to come up with anything more than a simple statement. Of course it's still rooted in fantasy. At least it wasn't "fuck _______".
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 06:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Another "I was a fan before..." statement. As I've noted, this is typical behaviour and should be expected. Although, it is particularly disapointing coming from this poster.
Well obviously people who actually were fans of Orton before his championship run are going to say so. It's no different than me accusing TOWC: Cena of being a bunch of band wagon jumpers and every Cena mark on the forum saying "No, I was a Cena fan before" your criticism of the "I was a fan before" statements hold no credibility unless if you can somehow prove that at one point or another one of the Orton marks actually hated Orton
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 06:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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No, heel Cena would still be shitty to me. I root for the bad guy... that doesn't mean I root for all bad guys. Khali and Snitsky may both be heels... but they both suck. I honestly wouldn't like Cena either way. As far as Orton having no support in 2004 I think it's a general consensus on any wrestling forum that he was robbed of the heavyweight championship and deserved a lengthy run. There are very few "markout" moments for me but Orton reversing the crippler crossface into the RKO to defeat Benoit at SS 04 was a mark out moment for me. I'm not going to deny that his run as a babyface sucked- it did. But if it gave wrestling fans anything at all it was at least a classic match up featuring Ric Flair vs Randy Orton at Taboo Tuesday 2004. As far as Batista goes, I think the main reason Batista got the huge push that he did in 2005 was because the WWE writers wanted to push Orton but knew they fucked up his face run BADLY. So instead of trying to correct their mistakes they simply chose to push Evolution member #2 and get it right the second time around with Batista.
Orton received the belt to remove Lesnar as the youngest champ and they hurried that one through as fast as possible. It's common knowledge. Regardless, it is completely irrelevant. This is all just an attempt to gain cred and is predictable.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 06:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Orton received the belt to remove Lesnar as the youngest champ and they hurried that one through as fast as possible. It's common knowledge. Regardless, it is completely irrelevant. This is all just an attempt to gain cred and is predictable.
That claim has been made before but is completely wrong. Brock Lesnar is still the youngest WWE champion in the history of the company. Randy Orton is the youngest world heavyweight champion in WWE history. They are two different belts and as such have two different records.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 06:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well obviously people who actually were fans of Orton before his championship run are going to say so. It's no different than me accusing TOWC: Cena of being a bunch of band wagon jumpers and every Cena mark on the forum saying "No, I was a Cena fan before" your criticism of the "I was a fan before" statements hold no credibility unless if you can somehow prove that at one point or another one of the Orton marks actually hated Orton


This is easily proven by the fact that how poorly his broken armed cowboy gimmick went over. How many get well letters were Orton marks writing then? Zero. Which means that I'm right.

By contrast, Cena fans welcome the bandwagon and casual fans. That's why Cena is so popular. It does not matter when somebody becomes a Cena fan, just that they do. However, the typical Cena hater was once a fan. I'm sure there will be a litany of posts saying "I hated Cena since blah blah blah!" But I know it's a lie. And the evidence is in the typical "I got tire of seeing Cena win and the same thing blah blah blah." Although you just said as long as Orton keeps winning you're happy. Obviously, there are flaws in your logic. But that's ok, your demographic isn't required to think for themselves, Vince already does it for you.
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Old 04 Feb 2008, 06:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This is easily proven by the fact that how poorly his broken armed cowboy gimmick went over. How many get well letters were Orton marks writing then? Zero. Which means that I'm right.

By contrast, Cena fans welcome the bandwagon and casual fans. That's why Cena is so popular. It does not matter when somebody becomes a Cena fan, just that they do. However, the typical Cena hater was once a fan. I'm sure there will be a litany of posts saying "I hated Cena since blah blah blah!" But I know it's a lie. And the evidence is in the typical "I got tire of seeing Cena win and the same thing blah blah blah." Although you just said as long as Orton keeps winning you're happy. Obviously, there are flaws in your logic. But that's ok, your demographic isn't required to think for themselves, Vince already does it for you.
The only flaw in logic is the fact that on the one hand you're saying it's alright for Cena fans to jump on the chain gang banging bandwagon but at the same time you're criticizing Orton fans for jumping on a bandwagon? Right...

You're right I enjoy seeing Orton win. But I never said 100% of the time. I like to see Orton win but expect him to lose some of the time that's just natural. The amount of victories and "impossible" odds Cena overcomes goes past being predictable and goes into just being plain ridiculous and silly even. When I see Cena apply the STFU to somebody and that person taps out as soon as the move is applied I don't know if I should A) be angry that something so stupid looking is sold as an effective finisher or B) if I should just laugh at how ridiculous it is. On second thought I think I should just laugh... there's really no point in trying to take somebody who took his gimmick from a Vanilla Ice costume seriously.
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