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Old 07 Jun 2006, 10:09 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Leave your controversial opinons here. Here are mine:

Undertaker was better as the Bad-Ass

Flair and Hogan is over rated while people like Iron Sheik and Ricky Steamboat are underrated

The warrior has lost the plot and never had any real in ring abilty.

Stone cold and Rocks promo's were entertaining but they were built around catch-phrases and cheap pops.

Shelton,Carlito,Lashley,Kenny and Randy Orton will be the future of this business, not Cena.

Stone colds comeback match should be against Triple H NOT Hogan.

The brand split hasn't worked to its full potential because the writing on SD is so awful.

The Rock and Austin are two of the best "story tellers" in history. Also despite always being knocked for thier in ring abiltys they could of put on a decent wrestling match a few times, eg Austin vs Hart @ ss 96 and Rock vs Angle "can't remember what PPV but it was when Angle won his first WWE Championship"

Chris Jericho was under utilized.

Kane is misused same can go for Simon Dean and Victoria.

Estrada is hilarious but wtf is up with Umaga.

Khali should retire.
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 10:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The second half of them are much less controversial than the first I reckon.
Mine are:
Despite botch ups ECW will still be entertaining
John Cena is getting much better again.
RVD is good on the mike and getting better.
Eugene is underrated and the Striker Eugene feud is good.
Mark Henry has potential and is getting better as he gets more ring time.
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 11:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sullivan
Leave your controversial opinons here. Here are mine:

Undertaker was better as the Bad-Ass

Flair and Hogan is over rated while people like Iron Sheik and Ricky Steamboat are underrated

The warrior has lost the plot and never had any real in ring abilty.

Stone cold and Rocks promo's were entertaining but they were built around catch-phrases and cheap pops.

Shelton,Carlito,Lashley,Kenny and Randy Orton will be the future of this business, not Cena.

Stone colds comeback match should be against Triple H NOT Hogan.

The brand split hasn't worked to its full potential because the writing on SD is so awful.

The Rock and Austin are two of the best "story tellers" in history. Also despite always being knocked for thier in ring abiltys they could of put on a decent wrestling match a few times, eg Austin vs Hart @ ss 96 and Rock vs Angle "can't remember what PPV but it was when Angle won his first WWE Championship"

Chris Jericho was under utilized.

Kane is misused same can go for Simon Dean and Victoria.

Estrada is hilarious but wtf is up with Umaga.

Khali should retire.
Undertaker was much better during the attitude era because the character made more sense. You don't see that many bikers who are called Undertaker. However, in the Bad Ass gimmick Undertaker kicked alot more ass and was more into it.
Ricky Steamboat is heavily underrated. People like Foley are over-rated. The guy can take a few knocks but he isn't the greatest of wrestlers, good entertainer tho.
Warrior was and is the biggest example of an ego. Just because he got a few pops during his day he thinks he is bigger than Vince. Doubt it. Was never really a good wrestler in my opinion.
Stone Cold, The Rock and Chris Jericho cut the best promos this business has ever seen. Jericho/Rock taking the piss out of Stephanie. Gold. Austin, best entertainer and most popular superstar of all time and the biggest draw the company has ever had
Cena is the future and so are all the others you mentioned. In a couple of years Shelton and Lashley will be the best and most popular stars in the company.
Stone Cold should decide himself on who his comeback should be against. The guy put on so many legendary matches it was untrue, but in my opinion he should fight Rock again because they are the two biggest draws in the business and have put on the best matches this company has ever seen. WM15, 17, 19 etc.
Smackdown hasn't worked because Vince dosen't want it to work. He takes all Smackdowns superstars and deals Smackdown fading ones with little popularity e.g. Randy Orton.
Stone Cold and Rock are the best story tellers in the business.
Jericho was pure gold but was never given a chance to shine properly. It was great that he was the first ever undisputed champion tho.
Kane has my upmost respect. The guy refuses to hold the title again. Dosen't moan about only having a 24 hour reign. Dosen't want to beat Undertaker at wrestlemania. He is the most respected superstars backstage. The guy has got my complete and utter respect for the above reasons. Always was underused even when he was one of the most popular superstars in the business (2003 time) Simon Dean should be used better because of his nancy boy image and Victoria should be being pushed like Chyna because i see potential in her that Chyna had before her broken neck.
Khali = Gay. Enough said.
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 12:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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^yea guys like Steamboat, DDP, Kerry Von Erich, Dusty are not rated enough while Hogan is the most popular for what??? Because of a gimmick and he made a couple od movies??

Also Haas has the potential to be a big star in the future.
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 12:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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SC should be banned from ever getting in a wwe ring again. Primarily for walking out on Vince twice and secondarily, for being a wife beating drunk.
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 02:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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its funny, because so many people here i bet are going to *agree* to everyones 'unpopular' opinions; as far as wrestling fans go, a lot of us are more of fans of 'quality' over what wwe writers want us to like, and what most people do/did like.

for example there were hhh marks all over this forum while he was still completely heal.

some of mine:

tag team midcards are more entertaining than regular midcards.

edge is the most talented pure mic talent wrestler in the wwe today. hhh is great too, but his are more about how he carries himself (facial expressions, awkward silences, etc) where as edge knows just what to say. he knows his role completely; for example how he says 'crap' instead of 'shit' and stuff like that.

dx should be brought back full scale and have a total faction war, and EVERYONE should be on a side either dx or mcmahon. shane or linda should be on dx's side.

vince should have continued to play up mcmahonism (i didnt find it overly offensive even though i am a Christian) but also even moreso that the bumps he took at wrestlemania start making him more and more insane.

women should only be on for ring announcing and as managers.

just about everyone, especially midcarders, should have managers. these don't need to be divas. some of my all time favorites were jimmy hart or jim cornette or mr. fuji. see armando alejandro estrada as example of a current great manager. also, managers *can* manage for more than one superstar/tagteam.

need a new announcer, maybe two. i vote for booker t for one of them.

the majority of the intricacies of wrestling entertainment, be it in ring or with promos or interviews, are missed, and i blame the wwe for this.

golddust is perhaps the most wasted in ring talent of the last decade or so.

it's fun to see old guys back. it's not fun to see them back continually, especially when it's taking up time for young guys to get a shot.

wrestlers need more nicknames.

wwe needs to not even f with special effects like kane's thing or mcmahon vs god. kane's ring explosion is pretty good, and the few guys who have entrance stuff is neat, but that's enough.

michaels doesn't get enough mic time and has too much time in the ring.

besides ppv's, the matches between uppercard guys are almost always the same.

they should bring back steel cages and not these fence ones.

king of the ring should be a real tournament with 32 smackdown and 32 raw superstars with matches starting as soon as the rumble is over, and the 'final 8' should all compete *at* the king of the ring.

people are allowed to have matches without having a feud.

more guys like striker with not an overblown goofy gimmick but some kind of theme are good. i miss guys like the genius or mr. perfect.

i believe vince mcmahon at one point, especially while other wrestling promotions were around, thought it was necessary to try to screw over, as bad as possible, anyone who has left. i believe he has changed his stance on this and seems to be trying to mend old broken relationships (bret hart) and keep options open for anyone he thinks may be good to have back (the rock)

paul heyman is gold on the mic.
so is teddy long.
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 02:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Chris Jericho should come back to the WWE.

ECW Will no doubt fail. Like the WBF and XFL before it, anything Vince owns that's not the WWE has a 96% chance of utter failure.

Batista, Orton, rey, and Mark henry as the SMackdown main eventers = Utter shit. Just break the split already.

the highlanders should go to smackdown. they'd fit in with the Pirates, Leprechauns, Trannys, Boogeymen, Kings, and so on....
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 03:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reesecal
edge is the most talented pure mic talent wrestler in the wwe today. hhh is great too, but his are more about how he carries himself (facial expressions, awkward silences, etc) where as edge knows just what to say. he knows his role completely; for example how he says 'crap' instead of 'shit' and stuff like that.

golddust is perhaps the most wasted in ring talent of the last decade or so.

wwe needs to not even f with special effects like kane's thing or mcmahon vs god. kane's ring explosion is pretty good, and the few guys who have entrance stuff is neat, but that's enough.

michaels doesn't get enough mic time and has too much time in the ring.

besides ppv's, the matches between uppercard guys are almost always the same.

they should bring back steel cages and not these fence ones.

king of the ring should be a real tournament with 32 smackdown and 32 raw superstars with matches starting as soon as the rumble is over, and the 'final 8' should all compete *at* the king of the ring.

more guys like striker with not an overblown goofy gimmick but some kind of theme are good. i miss guys like the genius or mr. perfect.

paul heyman is gold on the mic.
so is teddy long.
Completely agreed. Goldust is absolute gold "no pun intended" on the mic and in the ring. Should be a mid-carder. I like him alot. Speaking of Edge. He should be champ, not Cena. Im not a Cena hater but this whole heat thing is gettin out of hand plus Edge is a better draw and crowd pleaser than Cena, but in no way is Edge a better worker than Cena. Cena works his ass off for this company. King of the Ring should be promoted like one of the "big 4" because it can re-kindle old feuds and would be a major success. The old steel cages looked like the hurt like hell, these new ones wouldn't hurt a damn chicken on ketamin. Striker is great, hes growing one me. Michaels, Heyman and Long are all quality mic men. Hell in a Cell is now becoming the biggest predictable match ever for upper-carders. The only hell in a cell match that should have happened should have been Kane vs Undertaker when those two were really at each others throats in 1997/1998. Ok then i'm finished ranting
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 03:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Monday Night
...Speaking of Edge. He should be champ, not Cena. Im not a Cena hater but this whole heat thing is gettin out of hand plus Edge is a better draw and crowd pleaser than Cena, but in no way is Edge a better worker than Cena. Cena works his ass off for this company...
How in the world could you possibly think Edge is a better draw than Cena? Edge has not been a draw since he was in E&C. Edge's drawing ability has fallen so low that the WWE would only give him a 3 week run out of sympathy and stupidity for having him win the MITB a freaking year earlier. 2 years ago, I would have said Edge deserves a shot as champ, but he is way below champ material now. So low that they're going to have to ship him over to ECW lol.
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 04:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sullivan

Flair is over rated while people like Iron Sheik and Ricky Steamboat are underrated
Yeah, Ric Flair is overrated...
Mid-Atlantic Tag Team titles w/Rip Hawk defeating Paul Jones & Bob Bruggers (July 4, 1974);
Mid-Atlantic Television title defeating Paul Jones (1975);
NWA World Tag Team titles w/Greg Valentine defeating Gene & Ole Anderson (December 26, 1976);
Mid-Atlantic Television title defeating Rufus R. Jones (1977);
Mid-Atlantic Tag Team titles w/Greg Valentine defeating Dino Bravo & Tiger Conway Jr (June 30, 1977);
NWA United States title defeating Bobo Brazil (September 1977);
NWA World Tag Team titles w/Greg Valentine defeating Gene & Ole Anderson (October 30, 1977);
NWA United States title defeating Mr. Wrestling (May 1978);
NWA (Mid-Atlantic) Tag Team titles w/John Studd defeating ???? & ???? (June 30, 1978);
NWA (Mid-Atlantic) Tag Team titles w/John Studd defeating Paul Jones & Ricky Steamboat (October 30, 1978);
NWA United States title defeating Ricky Steamboat (April 1, 1979);
NWA World Tag Team titles w/Blackjack Mulligan defeating Baron Von Raschke & Paul Jones (August 8, 1979);
NWA United States title defeating Greg Valentine (November 24, 1980);
NWA United States title defeating Jimmy Snuka (April 19, 1981);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Dusty Rhodes (September 17, 1981);
Missouri Heavyweight title defeating David von Erich (July 15, 1983)
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Harley Race (November 24, 1983);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Harly Race (March 24, 1984);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Kerry von Erich (May 24, 1984 in Japan);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Dusty Rhodes (August 7, 1986);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Ron Garvin (November 26, 1987);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Ricky Steamboat (May 7, 1989);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Sting (January 11, 1991);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Tatsumi Fujinami (May 19, 1991);
WWF Royal Rumble Winner (January 19, 1992);
WWF Heavyweight title by winning the Royal Rumble (January 19, 1992);
WWF Heavyweight title defeating Randy Savage (September 1, 1992);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Barry Windham (July 18, 1993);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Vader (December 27, 1993);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Ricky Steamboat (March 24, 1994);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Sting (June 23, 1994);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Randy Savage (December 25, 1995);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Randy Savage (February 11, 1996);
WCW United States title defeating Konnan (July 7, 1996);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Hulk Hogan (March 14, 1999);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Jeff Jarrett (May 15, 2000);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Kevin Nash (May 29, 2000);
(WWE) World Tag Team titles w/Batista defeating The Dudley Boyz in a Tag Team Turmoil match (Armageddon 2003);
(WWE) World Tag Team titles w/Batista defeating Booker T & RVD on March 22, 2004 RAW;
WWE Intercontinental title defeating Carlito Cool (September 18, 2005 - Unforgiven);


Yeah, that seems pretty overrated to me...
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I dunno...it's the"I'm better than you and I'm not even gonna shout it, yell it or overstate it, I'm fuckin Naitch goddamn it and all I really got to say is ......wooooooooooo!!!!!" pic of Ric
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 05:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walken
Yeah, Ric Flair is overrated...
Mid-Atlantic Tag Team titles w/Rip Hawk defeating Paul Jones & Bob Bruggers (July 4, 1974);
Mid-Atlantic Television title defeating Paul Jones (1975);
NWA World Tag Team titles w/Greg Valentine defeating Gene & Ole Anderson (December 26, 1976);
Mid-Atlantic Television title defeating Rufus R. Jones (1977);
Mid-Atlantic Tag Team titles w/Greg Valentine defeating Dino Bravo & Tiger Conway Jr (June 30, 1977);
NWA United States title defeating Bobo Brazil (September 1977);
NWA World Tag Team titles w/Greg Valentine defeating Gene & Ole Anderson (October 30, 1977);
NWA United States title defeating Mr. Wrestling (May 1978);
NWA (Mid-Atlantic) Tag Team titles w/John Studd defeating ???? & ???? (June 30, 1978);
NWA (Mid-Atlantic) Tag Team titles w/John Studd defeating Paul Jones & Ricky Steamboat (October 30, 1978);
NWA United States title defeating Ricky Steamboat (April 1, 1979);
NWA World Tag Team titles w/Blackjack Mulligan defeating Baron Von Raschke & Paul Jones (August 8, 1979);
NWA United States title defeating Greg Valentine (November 24, 1980);
NWA United States title defeating Jimmy Snuka (April 19, 1981);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Dusty Rhodes (September 17, 1981);
Missouri Heavyweight title defeating David von Erich (July 15, 1983)
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Harley Race (November 24, 1983);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Harly Race (March 24, 1984);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Kerry von Erich (May 24, 1984 in Japan);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Dusty Rhodes (August 7, 1986);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Ron Garvin (November 26, 1987);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Ricky Steamboat (May 7, 1989);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Sting (January 11, 1991);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Tatsumi Fujinami (May 19, 1991);
WWF Royal Rumble Winner (January 19, 1992);
WWF Heavyweight title by winning the Royal Rumble (January 19, 1992);
WWF Heavyweight title defeating Randy Savage (September 1, 1992);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Barry Windham (July 18, 1993);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Vader (December 27, 1993);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Ricky Steamboat (March 24, 1994);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Sting (June 23, 1994);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Randy Savage (December 25, 1995);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Randy Savage (February 11, 1996);
WCW United States title defeating Konnan (July 7, 1996);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Hulk Hogan (March 14, 1999);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Jeff Jarrett (May 15, 2000);
WCW World Heavyweight title defeating Kevin Nash (May 29, 2000);
(WWE) World Tag Team titles w/Batista defeating The Dudley Boyz in a Tag Team Turmoil match (Armageddon 2003);
(WWE) World Tag Team titles w/Batista defeating Booker T & RVD on March 22, 2004 RAW;
WWE Intercontinental title defeating Carlito Cool (September 18, 2005 - Unforgiven);


Yeah, that seems pretty overrated to me...
Oh good god.


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Old 07 Jun 2006, 06:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm posting in here now so I will remember to get to this thread when I have the time tomorrow......

in the meantime, yeah, Flair's not so overrated, you know......
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Old 08 Jun 2006, 03:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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^Anyone can win titles on numerous occassions if the booker wants to. Also ppl like Steamboat,Sheik,Greg Valentine,Bobo Brazil were better technically and worked as hard, they just wasn't booked to win titles on so many occassions!

Flair is great no doubt and he has indeed outlast those I mentioned above but he is still way overrated to me.

Also don't forget at one time in WCW Flair had power to book himself to win Championships and he did.
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Old 08 Jun 2006, 03:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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.

Also don't forget at one time in WCW Flair had power to book himself to win Championships and he did.

Please elaborate on that one for me...I'm not sure which instance you are referring to...

Flair is not overrated and Not anyone can win title numerous times just because a booker wants them to. They can, but when that happens, if the fans arent behind the champion, then business begins to suffer and eventually the company will start to flounder. The fans arent stupid, and no matter how many times a booker "gives" a title to a wrestler, it doesnt mean they can handle it or will draw. See the Von Erichs for a classic case.

The fact is, Ric Flair always drew money. As the NWA champion he had, what many people consider the greatest feud ever with Ricky Steamboat. In WCW he and Sting did big numbers. And whenever the company needed to pull itself out of a shithole it ahd dug for itself creatively, they always went back to Flair. There came a point where he was the only one in WCW who could hold the title and it mean anything...

Ric Flair has been Ric Flair for over thirty years...The same guy...the same character...the same look...the same style...the same limousine riding, Jet Flyin, kiss stealin, wheelin and dealin son of a gun...and he still draws money. Ric Flair can draw based on being Ric Flair.

Hogan couldnt do it...he had to become HollyWood Hogan.
Sting couldnt do it...he had to do the Crow thing
Sheik couldnt do it...people lost interest in him
Greg Valentine couldt do it...He came to WWE and floundered after a few years.
Bobo Brazil Couldnt do it...he couldnt stay on top long enough

Basically, what Im getting at here is that everybody else did it good. Flair did it Great...

There may have been better talkers (The Rock) There may have been better physiques (Hogan) There may have been better techincal Wrestlers (Hart) but nobody was a consistently good all of these things as long as Flair was...and that...is why he is not overrated.
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I dunno...it's the"I'm better than you and I'm not even gonna shout it, yell it or overstate it, I'm fuckin Naitch goddamn it and all I really got to say is ......wooooooooooo!!!!!" pic of Ric
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Old 08 Jun 2006, 05:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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well.....I typed up a boatload of stuff and somehow lost it.....GAH!!!

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Undertaker was better as the Bad-Ass
no, UT was better circa 1997-1999 when he had Austin carrying him and the company on his back......UT was in his prime then and could actually wrestle a little bit as well as be an entertainer......you may have liked the gimmick better, but as a whole, UT was definitely better in the post-DX, pre-ministry time period......

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Flair and Hogan is over rated while people like Iron Sheik and Ricky Steamboat are underrated
first off, I'm not going to tackle the Flair issue right now.....it simply would take too long......

How could Hogan be overrated?.......he is hugely popular with his fanbase because of what he meant to the wrestling entertainment business.....no one has ever said "wow, what a great WRESTLER Hulk Hogan is"......he simply cannot be overrated when no one rates him highly as a wrestler......as an entertainer, he is rated as an icon in the wrestling entertainment industry, someone that most young wrestlers can only dream about reaching the heights he has over his career......

Sheik is proof that memories make people better than what they really were......he is a bitter old man that had a decent gimmick during a time that people from this country hated people from that country.....meh.....he wasn't really much in the way of a wrestler, and he was decent on the mic.....

Steamboat is beloved by the wrestling fans around the world, and they know what kind of performer he was.....don't know how that is underrated......he was never given gold because he couldn't overcome the charisma that was Hulkamania and the Savageness of Macho Man......but he is highly respected among the wrestling world.....

I gotta go, but I'll get back to this thread.....I like it.....
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Maybe someone swapped your keyboard with Toof's. His always seemed broken too.
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