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What happened?
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 02:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What happened?

I remember watching the WWF when I was younger...Savage, Hogan, Yokozuna, Taker, HBK...the list goes on...

Their was something so entertaining about it, I couldnt look away. Everything was so exciting.

Even later on With Stone Cold, The Rock, HBK as the Commish, Triple H, Owen, Taker...
There was still something about it, that made me anticipate the next weeks show, the next PPV...

But then ..and I'm not sure when it happened...something changed...
Raw became kinda....bleh, there was no longer any anticipation..the excitement was gone. PPVs have come and gone without raising much interest...

What happened...what changed?
I'd say maybe its me, but the numbers for Raw arent so great either...so I must not be alone...
What happened to the WWE?
Is it the audience that changed or did the WWE just forget who their audience is?
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 05:40 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think the main problem is that nothing that happens is important anymore baecause:

a) There are too many PPV's, making each one less special,
b) Titles change hands too often, making tham less special too,
c) If someone loses a string of matches, they could still end up getting title shots (ie. Bashams)
d) There is just so much WWE on TV these days, you never really have to worry about missing anything,
e) When we, the fans, the target audience, get older, we're a lot tougher to impress,
f) the writing and booking genuinely sucks this year, and yes,
g) Vince McMahon has lost touch with his audience, going for i) shock value (ie. Katie Vick) and ii) nostalgia -(Hogan, Piper) in recent months, both of which failed miserably, and
hhh) there is no real competition in the mainstream market to keep writers on their toes.

Just messing with that hhh thing...
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 11:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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^^^i agree with heeface.....titles mean nothing, because you can be on a big losing streak, yet get a title shot.....take Kane, for example.....he just came out of a feud with a non-wrestler, but he will now be the #1 contender for the belt....a feud in which he was not the convincing winner, i might add.....they don't allow winning streaks anymore, and when they do, people complain about it (ie Goldberg).....ppv's are no longer a big deal, because they are on all the time.....besides the fact that half of the ppv matches were just on Raw or Smackdown the week before.....and, as we get older, it does take more to impress us.....you have said before, Kurt, that you are a big guy, so big guys don't impress you unless they do something you don't perceive you can do.....(i don't mean that as a slam to you, Kurt, i'm just saying you're probably not impressed by someone bodyslamming another person, because you could envision yourself doing the same thing).....the awe of Hogan "hulking up" isn't the same anymore.....and, Vince has done a great job of destroying those wrestling 'heroes' of our youth.....the excitement is still there, i believe, we just look at it with jaded eyes as we grow older.....
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 01:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelFace
I think the main problem is that nothing that happens is important anymore baecause:

a) There are too many PPV's, making each one less special,
b) Titles change hands too often, making tham less special too,
c) If someone loses a string of matches, they could still end up getting title shots (ie. Bashams)
d) There is just so much WWE on TV these days, you never really have to worry about missing anything,
e) When we, the fans, the target audience, get older, we're a lot tougher to impress,
f) the writing and booking genuinely sucks this year, and yes,
g) Vince McMahon has lost touch with his audience, going for i) shock value (ie. Katie Vick) and ii) nostalgia -(Hogan, Piper) in recent months, both of which failed miserably, and
hhh) there is no real competition in the mainstream market to keep writers on their toes.

Just messing with that hhh thing...

Thats pretty much somes up whats the problem. There was a time when ppv were a huge deal. The same way titles meant something. Now they are more or less use to whipe your ass on. Before wrestling had a ceratin feel to it. Random shit wouldn't be happing all the time. You had to have winning streak in order to even be mentioned for a title shot, however you had to sell the streak......Which meant you had to wrestle a string of deceant match's, and yes they be over 6 minutes of hot air. the US champ was the #1 contender and the TV champ was #2 and anyone else who was in line for a title shot had to have the record to back it up. In WWE was the same way just no TV title.

Vince doesn't know what fan base he wants, but he doesn't stay consistent enough to appeal to any one group of fans, he's all over the place. The problem now to me is that the storylines don't make sense. Really don't make sesnse. And sometimes they try and pretend certain things never happend. How do the Bashams lose all match's and win one get a title shot and now are the world champions. How is Kane suppose to be such a force if he can't even get rife of Shane convincingly. Back in the day a man wouldn't come into the federation wrestle 4 match's and be the world champion. Back in the day if there were 3 on 1 there was no way you had a chance. Shit is just extremly unrealistic. And whoever is writing for them backstage should be fired.
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 03:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I agree, I think the older you get the less entertained you get, but I really don't see anything wrong with the WWE, im not watching the show to criticize it, Im watching it to be entertained. And no matter how bad it gets or how low it gets in ratings I will always watch it, because that is what a true fan should do
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 03:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The Internet. Spoils too damn much. I would just love to stay off the intenet for a month and watch the shows without 'knowing' whats going to happen and see if it makes me anymore excited. I'm sure yoy can geuss the result. But alas...I find the Interent a haven for me.
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 05:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Too much McMahons on TV,that's what has happened
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Old 18 Nov 2003, 05:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
e) When we, the fans, the target audience, get older, we're a lot tougher to impress,
^ that and:
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The Internet Spoilrs
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 06:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I've been wondering the same thing about the WWE Kurt, HeelFace nailed it on the head so i can't say anything more. I would say the key thing is the writers and not enough pushes as the same wrestlers keep winning the WWE title over and over again, plus the matches have very predictable outcomes, sometimes i think i'm psychic, i really do.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 01:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Excellent points of view. I think that there are several...not really answers but just more questions...to the main question of the post which is what has happened since the Pre WMIII days that has dulled wrestling.

When I was a kid, I'd watch wrestling every Saturday religiously. The early afternoon show on Saturdays was all mid carders, and if we were lucky we got to see a glimpse of The Macho Man and Miss Elizabeth. I loved it anyway. Guys like Koko B. Ware, Bad News Brown, Natural Butch Reed, Greg Valentine, Brutus Beefcake, Roddy Piper, "The (muthaf#%in') Doctor of Style"...Slick! They were all great and entertaining as hell, and looking at the big picture, they were all more or less mid carders. I watched it anyway, I loved it.

Saturday Night's Main Event was like Manna from Heaven. The Hart Foundation, Hogan, Macho Man, Andre the Giant, Big John Studd (always great to see him lose), the British Bulldogs...every fourth Saturday was the best night of the week for me. I remember one week they cut off an overrun Hart Foundation match for an episode of Miami friggin' Vice. It was a really good match, too. The next Monday at school, we were all bitching about it to each other. "Damn, they couldn't go one week without Miami Vice..." I just couldn't miss wrestling back then. Honestly, if I miss an episode of RAW or my wife doesn't tape SD! for me, if I miss a PPV here or there... it's not too big a deal. I like wrestling, but not the way I did when I was in 5th grade.

The thing is, I'm not in 5th grade anymore. Now, I'm an adult. If I get time in front of the television and I can actually watch something, it's a blessing. There are more priorities for adults, I personally can't give anyone but my employer an exact time for when I'll be able to do anything. My tastes in television have changed, and there's more programming on. I tell you this, if Vince ever puts a wrestling program opposite Iron Chef, you can bet I'll be watching Chairman Kaga and his panel sample some competitive cooking. IC is seriously the best show on TV, IMO.

As adults we crave fantastic and intricate storylines that would rival the ones already presented, but we also want it to be as realistic as possible. We want more action and less jibber-jabber, but we want decent feuds that have a good build and good drama. We want to see great technical wreslters, but if they want to flip off a ladder and smash someone through a table, or get thrown off the top of a Cell through Telemundo's commentary table, then that's just great. We want DX back, dammit.

We can't have it all both ways. Yeah, creative sucks right about now and Vince is all over the place, but seriously look at what he has to deal with. Since 1989, he has lost the wrestling services (in some cases temporarily) of sooo much top talent. Hogan, Savage, Andre, Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, and Kevin Nash. The WWE faces a very near future that won't be able to involve any of these people, and Booker T and Edge have gone on record as saying they're not going to be doing this too much longer.

Broken necks used to be rare tragedies in wrestling. These days, it's almost like a rite of passage. Today's wrestlers take more risks and their careers are being shortened because of it. Yet it is the risks that they take that are so craved by today's wrestling audience. I'm not above it...I jumped out of my chair when Taker sent Womankind down to the SAP table. I nearly choked on my beer when Shane jumped off the TitanTron. Just like I jumped for joy when Hogan slammed Andre. In less than twenty years, WWE has gone from The Body Slam Heard 'Round The World, to Mick Foley and Shane McMahon almost literally attempting suicide at PPVs.

Yeah, I'd say that's an extreme change.

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Old 19 Nov 2003, 02:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Glue, you need to post here more often. I'm always liking all of your posts, very intelligent.



Anyways, lots has changed in wrestling.

There isn't any competition right now, thus the writing has been stale and predictable, unrealistic, and all over the place. Vince, the writers, and the entire WWE has slacked off since ECW and WCW went out. If TNA could get a TV deal, maybe that would push creative (I use that term loosely) to actually be creative and inventive with what they write for the storylines.


WWE has lost it's older stars, but in my opinion, that's a good thing because none of them can perform. If the Hogans and Savages and Harts were still around, we might not have the Angles, the Lesnars, the Cenas, the Haases, the Benjamins, and all the other younger talent that we get to see every week. The star power is there, but the believability of what is written for them isn't.


Back to storylines, they do put more emphasis on them than the actual wrestling. I don't if it's just me, but all the talking and promoing and not enough wrestling isn't entertaining.


The internet has also definitely ruined it. Leaked storylines are put up, SD spoilers are put up, plans for this, that and the other thing aren't held dearly and confidential to WWE anymore. I try to keep myself from reading spoilers, and i do a pretty good job at it. I don't go to any news sites or read any articles about who is coming back when, who is debuting this Monday, etc. I do get surprised somewhat more than when I was reading all the dirt sheets and news articles, but I can't keep myself from seeing and reading it all.


I don't know, I think that WWE needs some strong competition to force them to put out a top notch product. Once some company rises up to challenge the almighty Vince, then maybe we will get that 'feeling' back again, but until then, we have to try to enjoy what they give us.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 06:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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All I know is that the WWE sucks now, and it sucks enough for me to never watch it.

I havn't watched wrestling for over a year now, it's so bad.

I used to love it but that love died a long time ago.
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Old 25 Nov 2003, 12:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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competion mainly......I agree and too many PPV's

I also think the roster spilt hurt WWE big time! There arent any good fueds to build on....

ahhhhh the god ole days of WWF are missed
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