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Tournament round 1:Bleak vs T- Mac
View Poll Results: Bleak or T Mac
Bleak 6 54.55%
T Mac 5 45.45%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11 Jan 2003, 06:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
TR(UTH)IPLE H
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Default Tournament round 1:Bleak vs T- Mac

Rules
Rules1 :No flamming or bashing of your opponent or you'll be dq'ed simple as that.....

rule 2: No copying and pasting from other boards i want your opinions not others

rule 3: No asking people to vote for you

RULE 4:Voters must post who they voted for so we can have a accurate poll.


T Mac and Bleak your subject is Triple H.

Bleak you'll argue why there is Triple H effect and why you think he's a negative influence in the company.

T Mac you'll argue why he's not and Why you think it's not a Triple H influence and why he's should be Rwaws top guy.

Voting will not start until both men post their arguments. And Bleak And T mac you can post as much as you want until the polls end tommorow at midnight.

Last edited by TR(UTH)IPLE H; 11 Jan 2003 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 11 Jan 2003, 11:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Triple H is the dease that is killing Raw. He is the only guy that was a top hand when the extension started and he and the company thinks that makes him a step above the rest.

HHH uses his spot with the McMahons and the fact that he helped carry the company when Austin and Taker where injured, and when Foley retired back in 2000. he was the top guy and he and the company feels that he should always be the top guy and he feels he should always be in the main happenings of what ever show he is on because he is already established.

HHH was put in the WWE dog house for years and when he finally got that shot he decided that he would never lose the spot light again. after years of losing to bottom of the card talent when he felt he shold have been at the top, he decided that when he finally got there that he would never lose it.

The WWE konws that HHH has been to the top and that the fans react to him weather he is heel or face. they know that he gets the reaction from the fans that they want. WWe is hesitant to take a chance and push sombody else because why should they when they have a established guy like HHH around.

Back when HHH got his push the WWE felt that in a years time they would lose Taker, Foley, and Austin, thus losing their whole top of the card. They knew it would probably be on the sholders of The Rock , HHH, and maybe Kane because they didn't have anywhere else to turn. HHH had stuck threw the thick and thin of the WWE dog house so they took the chance and gave him a push. They liked the result and have kept him at the top sence.

HHH knows that the WWE will bend over backwards for him because they dont want to lose him like they did Austin. They dont want to lose HHH by pissing him off by pushing other talent. They are letting themselves be used by HHH because they want to keep him.

Also if you hadn't noticed, on the HHH having to be in the spot light all time front, look at all that he has done in the last few years. He was a part of DX, a part of the Corperation, a member of the Corperate Ministry. that was all on his way up the ladder.

sence he has reached the top he has been in the McMahon/Hemsley Regime, he has been pretty much the leader of The Radiculz, he made damn sure he had the first suffnifgent run of Austin's return, he was a part of the Two Man Power Trip, he made sure his return after quad surgery was huge, he won the Royal Rumble after one match back, he was making sure he was going to be a part of the nWo, the one night DX return, he had the Wold Title haned to him and then in his first title defence he fought the old man Rick Flair (big challenge there), and now he is making sure he is a part of this new Four Horsemen so that he can ruin that legacy. Oh... and he is getting Scott Stiner's first run in WWE too.

so far sence he has got thw world title he has only gone 1 month without having it. He is a self centered egotistical son of a bitch! he is ruining my faveriote form of intertainment with crappy things like pose downs and arm wrestling and boring ass speaches. WWE please put and end to the HHH effect and push deserving talents like Kane, Booker T, Jericho, and RVD.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**EDIT** Oh crap sorry Truth but I accidently voted for myself before T-Mac posted a reply. but no matter what he posts I would etill vote for me.

hope I didn't get myslef a DQ.
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Last edited by The Bleak; 11 Jan 2003 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 12:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Wekk i expect you to vot for yourself. But thanks for letting me know.

And good post, I know T Mac has a lot to say about that.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 01:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
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After the departure of Stone cold and the Rock, Triple H took it upon him self to lead the WWE...especially to lead the Raw roster and that is exactly what he has done.

There is no such thing as a "Triple H effect" that is all a myth...a fairytale from all the jealous wrestler's and fan's that can accept the fact that he is that damn good. Even though Triple H is having a relationship with the Boss's daughter, Vince still calls the shot's, Triple H has lees backstage influence than you think, us bieng fans can only assume and when you assume...you're making an ass out of you and me.

Triple H is a guy that has the complete package, he has the look, the size, the wrestling skill's and the mic skill's. Triple H is a guy who gives it 110% every night, just take the PPV "Survivor series" for example, he suffered a major throat injury early in the match, he could have pulled a "Kevin Nash" and started crying and screaming but he didnt...he fought to the end and jobbed to Micheals as scripted...not many wrestlers would do that, he also suffered a torn quad in a match v.s Jericho last year, insted of runing back to the locker room like many other's would do, Triple H had the balls to take the walls of Jericho on the announce table, that takes alot of gut's and heart.

In closing, Triple H was without a shadow of a doubt...the MVP of 2000 he carried the company when Austin went down with an injury, Triple H is the second ever 7 time WWE champion and a future legend, so weather you love him or a hate him...you will respect him.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 01:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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^ I vote for him. Very well said.




Oh, and LOL at "pulling a Kevin Nash".
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 01:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
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LOL@ The Kevin Nash crying comment.

And a good post with valid points i'm glad i'm not voting. But you both have put up good arguments. Now people you can vote.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 01:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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HHH MVP of 2000!? HHH gives 110% every night!? HHH should be respected for being the 2nd 7 time WWE champion!? HHH has great mic skills!?

HHH did not carry 2000. Plain and simple. It was the futher contiuning of pushing The Rock as champ, the elvation of Kurt Angle, the returns of The Undertaker and Austin, and the debut of the Radiculz, Foley being Commishner, and Shane's fall from the titantron at Summerslam that made 2000 a huge sucess. HHH was only a small part of the great year that WWE had in 2000.

Now I don't know anout you but I don't think HHH gave 110% the night he beat Jeff Hardy with a sleeper. Or these past few weeks in the arm wrestling contest or the pose down. to me those are the way out for sombody who only gives 10% every night then kicks it up on the big shows when he needs to.

Why should we respect HHH when 1 of those 7 times he won the title, it was just given to him. If he wanted to prove he gives 110% every night and he wanted to prove that we should respect him why didn't he refuse it that way and actually fight somebody for it? The reason why is because he used his pull to make sure he got another title run. to make sure he was the top dog on Raw.

HHH has great mic skills? what show have you been watching these past few months? HHH ruined a great storyline with Kane when he gave that crappy monitone promo about Kane being a murder and he had sex with her after she died. Or how about all of the people who have fallen asleep these past months because HHH has put them to sleep with mic skills that are even worse than Al Gore's. Hell it's come to the point that when HHH comes on for another 50 minute promo I put in a tape of WCW from late 2000 to see good promos from Vince Russo, that's how bad HHH has gotten these past few months.

HHH has used his pull to de-push guys like RVD and Kane. RVD at Survivor Seriers was in the Elemination Chamber, the next month at Aarmeggedon he was at The World. Kane went from challenging HHH for the title at No Mercy, to the Elemination Chamber, to jobbing somthing like 3 straight matches to the rookie Batustia. Come on... you cant tell me HHH was worried about losing his spotlight so he had these guys lose their pushes.

Then theres is his blaming of Tough Enough and Confidential for the sinking ratings. If he was being a real leader, he would tell the guys to suck it up and prefrom like their lifes depened upon it. not blaming somthing else or sombody else. he would find ways to make his own preformnces better and lead by example. he would show the guys in the back how to make ratings go up. instead of just doing the ame damn things over and over agian and blaming sombody else for the sagging ratings.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 01:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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^ Also a good point, but alas, I have already voted.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 01:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I enjoyed both arguments and even though I personally dont like HHH, I appreciate that in the ring the man can sell moves and apart from a few minor instances - the bleaks mention of HHH beating hardy with a sleeper (lame) and him defeating the unamericans with 1 move (lame) he puts on tremendous matches to watch.
T-mac is probably right in that HHH's power backstage is overrated but I agreed with the bleak that HHH's mic skills and promos are boring and that I wish he wasnt in every raw main event. So after a super hard decision I voted for T-mac because I am not 100% convinced HHH is a negative influence and that was the question
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 01:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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First of all wrestling is scripted, it's not Triple H's decision to who job's to him and how many title reign's he has, all you're comments should be directed at Vinny Mac...not Triple H.

Triple H is an actor for a tv show, he is told what and what not to do, it's not like he wakes up one Monday morning and says "im gonna hold RVD back this week" if you have a problem with RVD and Kane jobbing to the game...take it up with Vinny Mac

Triple H has GREAT mic skill's and just because you dont like what he's saying doesnt mean he doesnt have mic skill's

Triple H suffered another torn quad at Armeggedon and that is why he hasnt gotten any in ring time during the past couple week's.




- Triple H pinned The Big Show for the WWF title on January 3, 2000 in Miami, FL.
- At the 2000 No Way Out, Triple H defeated Mankind in a "retirement" vs. WWF title match.
- Triple H won the Fatal Four Way/Elimination match at Wrestlemania 2000 in Anaheim, CA, as Vince McMahon turned against the Rock.
- At Judgment Day 2000, Triple H defeated The Rock in a 60-minute Iron Man match to capture his fourth WWF title. Triple H won 6-5.
- Triple H successfully defended the WWF title against The Rock on the June 5th "Raw."
- At Fully Loaded '00, Triple H beat Chris Jericho in a last man standing match.
- Triple H defeated Kurt Angle at Unforgiven '00 in a no disqualification contest. Mick Foley served as the special guest referee.
- At No Mercy in Albany, NY, Triple H defeated Chris Benoit.
- On the November 6, 2000 episode of "Raw," Triple H attacked Austin, revealing himself as the mastermind behind the hit and run incident at the 1999 Survivor Series in Detroit.

Those are just some of Hunters acomplishments for 2000
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 02:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Not trying to help out in any way, but adding to T-MAC's list,




-Royal Rumble 2000, put on a match of the year candidate with Cactus Jack in a Street Fight where HHH blew a hole in his leg, and still finished.




-Summerslam 2000, in a triple threat match with The Rock and Kurt Angle, Angle suffered an unscripted concussion and was hardly able to participate in the match. The Rock and HHH improvised, and still put on an awesome main event.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 02:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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For many years now HHH has said that he goes to the production meetings not just to present ideas for himself, but to present ideas he comes up with for other people. So he could easily have "suggested" that it would be better for the company to not push certain guys.

Plus HHH is an imposing figure. He is looked at as one of the biggest and best names in the bussiness and many wrestlers know about his ties to the McMahons. It could easily be that HHH with out knowing it could be scaring his colleges so much with his presence that they just wont say anything bad against him for fear of repercussions.

Bu no matter how you look at it, with HHH being the top guy on Raw, and the biggest backstage leader the blame must ultimately be passed on to him. He is the top dog and the top dog must take reponseabilty for the bad times. It might not be his fault, but it is up to him to help save the show. and right now, he doesn't seem to be doing that.

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(not a part of my arument, but this is hard. I'm completely on the T-Mac perspective, I don't feel HHH is soley the one to blame. but this was what I was assiged so I must aruge in favor a point of view I dont agree with.)
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 02:35 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Oh and by the way, Marbles. Kurt was supposed to have a scripted concussion in that Summerslam match in 2000. It's just he ended up with a real one. Just another example of Kurt making sure everything looked as real as possible.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 02:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Bleak i made these polls from looking at people post. And from what i seen i thought you was against Triple H and thought he was using back stage politics. And i knew T Mac thought otherwise so i figured it'll be a good topic for you 2.

But if you're not comfortable with it and this is not how you view things. I'll give you 2 a new topic and pm you to see if you're both comfortible with it. And then i'll ask you both your ideas and match you up....But we have to have points and counter points.

So if it's ok with T Mac and you want a different topic i'll give you 2 one.
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Old 12 Jan 2003, 02:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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TRUTH, if it's alright with you, if I'm in round two I'd like to make a request. How about a point-counterpoint discussion on what's causing the drop in the ratings? I think I may be oppinionated on that topic and could raise arguble points.
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