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Old 29 Jun 2005, 06:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Clayton loves Cincinnati

Palmer, defensive additions keys to growth
By John Clayton
ESPN.com

The NFL is geared to be a league of parity, as evidenced by the number of teams that annually fall somewhere between 9-7 and 7-9. But the toughest move sometimes is making that next step, getting to the 10-win level.

Being stuck in the middle of the pack can become a dangerous rut because fans – and often owners – get frustrated. Good coaches can't become great coaches without having playoff games on their résumés and many good coaches lose jobs by not advancing to that next step.

The Cincinnati Bengals are perhaps the most promising team in the middle of the pack. Coach Marvin Lewis has made miracles in putting together back-to-back 8-8 seasons. For one, he's brought the organization into the 21st century. Thanks to Lewis, veteran free agents now have their agents accepting phone calls from the Bengals. Before Lewis, Bengals offers were used only as leverage against more promising franchises. In addition, Cincinnati has drafted well under Lewis.

Coming out of the offseason workouts, the Bengals have a different buzz. While many prognosticators may put them behind the Steelers and Ravens in the increasingly competitive AFC North, the Bengals have earned a tag as one of the sleeper teams to watch. This could be their year to contend.

How things come together in training camp will ultimately tell whether they will be one of the surprise teams. Thanks to parity, a couple teams can jump from worst to first. The Chargers did that last year in the AFC West. So did the Falcons in the NFC South. Visits to training camps sometimes tip off those jumps. Other teams, like the Chargers, just get on a roll during the season, stay healthy and simply defy the odds.

Lewis' meticulous building through the draft could enable him to break through to that next level on two fronts. Quarterback Carson Palmer should only be better coming off his first successful season as a starter. His numbers were better than outsiders think. He completed 60.9 percent of his passes, threw 18 touchdown passes and was sacked only 25 times. A second season of starting should lower the number of interceptions he threw (18) in 2004.

"Carson is more deliberate,'' Lewis said. "He knows the things he likes. Last year, he might have wanted to have all passing plays called. Now, he knows and he wants to incorporate more [running]. Plus, he's grown as a leader. Carson was really demanding of getting guys out on the practice field before we had a chance to get to them in the coaching sessions.''

It's only natural to think Palmer will make that next step in becoming a big-time quarterback. He earned the honor of being the first player taken in the 2003 draft, and Lewis groomed him the right way. Far from the Bengals' past history of mistakes, Lewis didn't rush Palmer. He let him sit and watch as a rookie, much as the Titans did with Steve McNair.

In Year 2, Palmer was named the starter. Still, taking over wasn't easy. Palmer adjusted by having his teammates believe in him. Remember, Jon Kitna was the players' choice at quarterback after making a push for the playoffs in 2003. His offensive players loved him for his leadership and fire on the field. That passion didn't evaporate during Palmer's 2004 campaign.

To keep his starting job, Palmer had to perform, and he did. He won over his teammates as the leader, which creates the best of both worlds for the Bengals. Should anything happen to Palmer because of an injury, the offense won't lose much going back to Kitna. Suddenly, the Bengals have depth and success at the quarterback position.

Offensively, the Bengals have all the makings of a 10-win playoff team. They have the quarterback in Palmer who can compete against Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Chad Pennington, Ben Roethlisberger and others in the AFC. The Bengals have a 1,454-yard runner in Rudi Johnson. They have a Pro Bowl receiver in Chad Johnson who should improve on his 2004 numbers (1,274 yards, nine touchdowns). Third-round choice Chris Henry, a wideout, is also drawing buzz because he appears to be the big-play third option the Bengals had been hoping for in Kelley Washington.

Henry has displayed a lot of promise during the offseason program. In fact, he's already moving past Washington. The question will be how much he will press Peter Warrick for time as the third receiver behind Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

"Chris Henry has been tremendous,'' Lewis said. "It has not only been his speed, but he's a big target getting up there and making catches and coming back to get the ball. As a blocker, even though we haven't had pads on, he's shown he's willing to go in there and be physical. He's really been impressive.''

While Palmer's development was expected, the moves that could really put the Bengals over the top were at linebacker. David Pollack and Odell Thurman are the inside-outside tandem that should complete the defensive transition of the team. Prior to Lewis' arrival, the Bengals figured Takeo Spikes and Brian Simmons would be the heart of their defense for 10 years. However, things changed.

Spikes got tired of losing and celebrated when the Bengals didn't stop him from heading off to Buffalo prior to Lewis' first season as head coach. Lewis used the big money it would have taken to keep Spikes to bring in veterans to change the work habits and attitudes on defense.

Getting Pollack and Thurman finally puts Lewis' athletic stamp on his defense.

"They are both tremendous athletes,'' Lewis said. "More than that, they are very well-rounded, well-coached football players. The games aren't going to be too big for them. They are going to be able to handle the flow of the game and not let things get out of their hands.''

The buzz of their additions to the linebacking corps compares to what the Jets did last season in adding Eric Barton and Jonathan Vilma and promoting Victor Hobson to the starting lineup. In 2003, the Jets were decent but slow on defense at linebacker. Marvin Jones and Mo Lewis were on their last legs. Sam Cowart struggled to stay healthy with knee problems.

In case you're wondering, the Jets finished seventh defensively, thanks to the contributions of Vilma and Barton. They made the playoffs with 10 wins. The value of tough linebackers is even more valued in the AFC North than the AFC East because the division features more physically imposing running backs such as Jerome Bettis and Jamal Lewis.

Pollack is a linebacker who is big enough to be a defensive end, and he brings pass-rushing skills and toughness to the outside. Thurman may not be as gifted as Vilma, a Pro Bowl middle linebacker in the making, but he's close. He's got great speed and leadership. With Pollack, Thurman and Simmons, the Bengals have one of the best linebacking corps in the league, and Lewis knows the value of athletic linebackers.

"Good athletes at linebacker shed blockers or beat the block to prevent larger plays from occurring,'' he said. "Other times, they are going to make a big play with that athleticism.''

For a couple of years, the Bengals tried to plug the linebacking corps with veterans. Kevin Hardy helped to get the Bengals to that 8-8 level, but the NFL is a league that needs infusions of youth. The energy and excitement created by Pollack and Thurman put the Bengals' defense in position to jump into the top 10.

The Bengals are indeed ready to take the next step.
================================================== ========

Little love for Cinci...even if I hate them.

Late.
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People who use the words "Internet Bullies" are the most pussiest form of pussies you'll ever find. Chances are better than not that any girlfriend they've ever had cheated on them multiple times, probably right in front of them, laughing at their pitiful punk asses the whole time while they sat there and cried. If you or someone you know has been caused grief by an "Internet Bully" then you and/or that person is nothing but a little punk ass bitch, and the world would be a better, more manly place if you'd just jump off a fucking bridge already. Late.
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 10:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I know you are a Cleveland fan, but how can you (anybody) hate the Bungles. Their history is nothing but sucking, except the mid '80's and the early '90's. Other than a few seasons, they blew.

Clayton might be careful of what he's saying. The Bengles have been dubbed a "sleeper" many times over the past fifteen years. And they have been 8-8 (their best record too) three times in that span. Sleeper, most likely not.
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Originally Posted by The Glue totally owning and exposing EXO

I did. Remember?? You're just following me around acting like a little bitch posting after every post I put down because...well, because hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

You're probably sitting there wishing you had a pic of my kids so you could Photoshop them onto something because that's all you can really do.

Sure...you can take a run at numbfuck SC or plainjane Josh or complete moron Alex or can't get out of his own way Boston...but I don't agree with you about Barry and it's "Rueben Droughns this" "weed that" "your kids this" "Look at me and my halo over my head that."

Whatever. First of all, you don't have any depth of knowledge about any of that stuff, so you're just talking out of your ass. Secondly, you wouldn't be saying any of that shit if Barry Bonds wasn't some roided up freak who you're in love with.

It's fucking gay. I have better things to do than deal with someone who can't even debate a point, rather changes the subject again and again to deflect the fact that he's dead wrong. It's what dumbass 6th graders do...


I honestly don't give a fuck about your opinion. Like I told Alex, they're just words on a screen. I can't believe you don't get that concept...but okay.

I mean...you're the kind of guy that thinks if you yell louder than the other person, you will win a debate. And that's not new either...I've pretty much thought that about you from day one...

I didn't want to put it that way, but since you want to press on...

Lame dude. Just lame. I have better shit to do. You probably should too...but I'm betting you don't...

Late.
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 10:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bret Hart
I know you are a Cleveland fan, but how can you (anybody) hate the Bungles. Their history is nothing but sucking, except the mid '80's and the early '90's. Other than a few seasons, they blew.

Clayton might be careful of what he's saying. The Bengles have been dubbed a "sleeper" many times over the past fifteen years. And they have been 8-8 (their best record too) three times in that span. Sleeper, most likely not.
The Bengals have known success. You want a history that is nothing but sucking, look at my team for the past half century or so.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 06:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm aware of the Lions and The Bungles history. At least your team has won championships though (altough 1957 was a while ago).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Glue totally owning and exposing EXO

I did. Remember?? You're just following me around acting like a little bitch posting after every post I put down because...well, because hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

You're probably sitting there wishing you had a pic of my kids so you could Photoshop them onto something because that's all you can really do.

Sure...you can take a run at numbfuck SC or plainjane Josh or complete moron Alex or can't get out of his own way Boston...but I don't agree with you about Barry and it's "Rueben Droughns this" "weed that" "your kids this" "Look at me and my halo over my head that."

Whatever. First of all, you don't have any depth of knowledge about any of that stuff, so you're just talking out of your ass. Secondly, you wouldn't be saying any of that shit if Barry Bonds wasn't some roided up freak who you're in love with.

It's fucking gay. I have better things to do than deal with someone who can't even debate a point, rather changes the subject again and again to deflect the fact that he's dead wrong. It's what dumbass 6th graders do...


I honestly don't give a fuck about your opinion. Like I told Alex, they're just words on a screen. I can't believe you don't get that concept...but okay.

I mean...you're the kind of guy that thinks if you yell louder than the other person, you will win a debate. And that's not new either...I've pretty much thought that about you from day one...

I didn't want to put it that way, but since you want to press on...

Lame dude. Just lame. I have better shit to do. You probably should too...but I'm betting you don't...

Late.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 07:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bret Hart
I know you are a Cleveland fan, but how can you (anybody) hate the Bungles. Their history is nothing but sucking, except the mid '80's and the early '90's. Other than a few seasons, they blew.
I hate the Bengals because of Art Modell. No...I don't blame everything on Art Modell, but I do blame the Bengals on them. Art Modell fired the greatest football coach in the history of the NFL...yes, that being Paul Brown. People tell me that my team is in fact not named after him, but I don't give a shit, when people inevitably ask "why are they named 'The Browns,'" I invariably respond that they're named for Paul Brown. When they ask the equally inevitable follow up, "why are their helmets orange," I tell them that Orange was Mr. Brown's favorite color, which indeed it was.

So Art Modell, in his infinite stupidity, fired the only coach in NFL history to amass 7 Championships. Well Paul Freaking Brown had football in his blood and wasn't going to walk away. So, staying in the great state of Ohio, he went to this armpit of a city (sorry Kurt, I have no basis for saying that but I'm on a roll here) to start his own fucking franchise. Their jerseys were black and he made their helmets orange because that was his favorite color.

Today, while dwarfed by the sheer hatred, loathing and bitterness that surrounds the Crackmore Ratbirds, the Cincinnati Bengals stand as the second worst result of Art Modell buying the Cleveland Browns.

The Bengals represent the fact that Clevelanders should long ago have stormed Municipal Stadium like it was the fucking Bastille, accosted Art Modell and his crackhead son David, hauled them both kicking and screaming to Terminal Tower (now known as Tower City) and burned those vile pigfuckers alive in the street long, long before they had the chance to steal our franchise and move it to Crackmore.

Hope that answers your question...credit to Mac for the "pigfucker" blast.

Late.
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People who use the words "Internet Bullies" are the most pussiest form of pussies you'll ever find. Chances are better than not that any girlfriend they've ever had cheated on them multiple times, probably right in front of them, laughing at their pitiful punk asses the whole time while they sat there and cried. If you or someone you know has been caused grief by an "Internet Bully" then you and/or that person is nothing but a little punk ass bitch, and the world would be a better, more manly place if you'd just jump off a fucking bridge already. Late.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 08:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Didn't know Fart Modell fired Brown. I did know Brown coached the Bengals or owned because their stadium is or was called Paul Brown Stadium.

Yeah I think Modell is a piece of shit too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Glue totally owning and exposing EXO

I did. Remember?? You're just following me around acting like a little bitch posting after every post I put down because...well, because hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

You're probably sitting there wishing you had a pic of my kids so you could Photoshop them onto something because that's all you can really do.

Sure...you can take a run at numbfuck SC or plainjane Josh or complete moron Alex or can't get out of his own way Boston...but I don't agree with you about Barry and it's "Rueben Droughns this" "weed that" "your kids this" "Look at me and my halo over my head that."

Whatever. First of all, you don't have any depth of knowledge about any of that stuff, so you're just talking out of your ass. Secondly, you wouldn't be saying any of that shit if Barry Bonds wasn't some roided up freak who you're in love with.

It's fucking gay. I have better things to do than deal with someone who can't even debate a point, rather changes the subject again and again to deflect the fact that he's dead wrong. It's what dumbass 6th graders do...


I honestly don't give a fuck about your opinion. Like I told Alex, they're just words on a screen. I can't believe you don't get that concept...but okay.

I mean...you're the kind of guy that thinks if you yell louder than the other person, you will win a debate. And that's not new either...I've pretty much thought that about you from day one...

I didn't want to put it that way, but since you want to press on...

Lame dude. Just lame. I have better shit to do. You probably should too...but I'm betting you don't...

Late.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 09:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Its about goddam time someone else is giving the Bengals their due....


10-6 this year baby....Playoffs here we come
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Old 01 Jul 2005, 12:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'll make everyone a deal. If Cincy wins their divison I will wear some type of banner that says "I LOVE THE BENGALS" for 6 months. Yes, thats right SIX months.

I am that confident that the Bengals will not win their divison or even get a wild card spot.
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Old 01 Jul 2005, 07:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel
I'll make everyone a deal. If Cincy wins their divison I will wear some type of banner that says "I LOVE THE BENGALS" for 6 months. Yes, thats right SIX months.

I am that confident that the Bengals will not win their divison or even get a wild card spot.
Gee Reb...really going out on a limb there.

Lmao...

Late.
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People who use the words "Internet Bullies" are the most pussiest form of pussies you'll ever find. Chances are better than not that any girlfriend they've ever had cheated on them multiple times, probably right in front of them, laughing at their pitiful punk asses the whole time while they sat there and cried. If you or someone you know has been caused grief by an "Internet Bully" then you and/or that person is nothing but a little punk ass bitch, and the world would be a better, more manly place if you'd just jump off a fucking bridge already. Late.
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Old 01 Jul 2005, 02:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSHOLE
Its about goddam time someone else is giving the Bengals their due....


10-6 this year baby....Playoffs here we come
I think they'll be 9-7 and won't make it.
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Old 01 Jul 2005, 04:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel
I'll make everyone a deal. If Cincy wins their divison I will wear some type of banner that says "I LOVE THE BENGALS" for 6 months. Yes, thats right SIX months.

I am that confident that the Bengals will not win their divison or even get a wild card spot.
You're just hating cuz the Bengals are gonna ass the Cowboys again this year

Bengals wild card is a lock
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Old 01 Jul 2005, 11:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSHOLE
You're just hating cuz the Bengals are gonna ass the Cowboys again this year

Bengals wild card is a lock
People underestimate the Cowboys. I'll make a thread about it in the next few days or so. I'll change people's minds....
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Old 01 Jul 2005, 11:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Bengals will be no better than 8-8. And it will be a dissapointment too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Glue totally owning and exposing EXO

I did. Remember?? You're just following me around acting like a little bitch posting after every post I put down because...well, because hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

You're probably sitting there wishing you had a pic of my kids so you could Photoshop them onto something because that's all you can really do.

Sure...you can take a run at numbfuck SC or plainjane Josh or complete moron Alex or can't get out of his own way Boston...but I don't agree with you about Barry and it's "Rueben Droughns this" "weed that" "your kids this" "Look at me and my halo over my head that."

Whatever. First of all, you don't have any depth of knowledge about any of that stuff, so you're just talking out of your ass. Secondly, you wouldn't be saying any of that shit if Barry Bonds wasn't some roided up freak who you're in love with.

It's fucking gay. I have better things to do than deal with someone who can't even debate a point, rather changes the subject again and again to deflect the fact that he's dead wrong. It's what dumbass 6th graders do...


I honestly don't give a fuck about your opinion. Like I told Alex, they're just words on a screen. I can't believe you don't get that concept...but okay.

I mean...you're the kind of guy that thinks if you yell louder than the other person, you will win a debate. And that's not new either...I've pretty much thought that about you from day one...

I didn't want to put it that way, but since you want to press on...

Lame dude. Just lame. I have better shit to do. You probably should too...but I'm betting you don't...

Late.
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Old 02 Jul 2005, 03:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I dont rate the Bengals but I can see where everyone is making the jump that they can be a playoff team. Rudi Johnson is on fire... And didnt he just get a longterm deal in the offseason. Palmer as they keep saying should improve again.(geez i hope the same theory works in Dallas with Romo and Henson) Chad Johnson is a great player who also has a pretty fucking standup attitude for his team. He wants to win and that cannot be taught. Housmanzadeh will be serviceable. Offensively they can get it done. Defensively is another story. But i do understand why everyone is crowing about there chances.
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Old 02 Jul 2005, 10:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel
People underestimate the Cowboys. I'll make a thread about it in the next few days or so. I'll change people's minds....
I doubt it , champ.

Bengals will have a much better season than the Cowboys this year.
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