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the most overrated coach in sports.....
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Old 19 Jan 2004, 12:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default the most overrated coach in sports.....

after hearing so much crap about how great a coach Bill Bellichik is, i got to thinking.....who is the most overrated coach, whether it be past or present.....

in basketball, Phil Jackson has the rings, but he has always had at least two of the greatest players of the time.....

Pat Riley is considered a great coach, but he had Magic, Kareem, Worthy when he won the titles.....

in football, even my beloved Chiefs coach, Dick Vermeil is considered to be great.....but overall, he barely has above a .500 winning percentage.....

baseball, Joe Torre.....Bobby Cox......Dusty Baker.....

just throwing a few names out there.....not saying any of them are or are not.....what i thought was, if you guys are willing participants, tell me why you think a particular coach is or isn't.....then i will attempt to rebut that argument......

post away.....
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 09:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Lou Pinella and Andy Reid
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 09:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Reid for sure.

But oeo, why do you Bellichik is overrated. He is probably the best coach next to Parcells right now. I would take him over any coach in the nfl besides Parcells. Look what he has done with this beaten up team. And hey, at least he doesn't cry like a little baby (I know you even said Vermeil, and I agree with you).
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 09:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yep I don't find bill to be an over rated coach, he's done a fine job taking his team to the superbowl twice in three years, one year while missing his star qb, this year with a majority of his team injured.
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 09:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yep I don't find bill to be an over rated coach, he's done a fine job taking his team to the superbowl twice in three years, one year while missing his star qb, this year with a majority of his team injured.
And remember when they lost Malloy? Everyone thought it was over for them because they lost one of their big stars. Now you can't even notice he is gone.
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 09:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I hate to say it, cuz Rams are one of my secondary favorite teams, but Mike Martz. This guy was somehow dubbed an offensive guru, yet when it comes to making clutch decisions, the guy flops like a Goldberg title reign. For all the 'brilliance' he may have exhibited, there are probably at least 1 or 2 plays to counteract that. This guys, in my opinion, does what a coach should NOT do, and that is cost the team games by his decision making and play calling. Vermeil may not have the best record winning percentage wise, but if he would have stayed in the Lou, I guarantee the Rams would have at least 2 if not maybe 3 SB titles. It Vermeil that got that team turned around, and all Martz has done is ride his coat tails and bust.
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Old 22 Jan 2004, 11:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Phil Jackson, no doubt, he's smart I give him that, he's very patient, he waits for a team to have 2 great stars or more, then he waits for the coach to flop, THEN, he swoops in, changes a few of the teams plays, gives them some books to read, and hooks them up with a yoga instructor. Shit, I could have won 6 championships if I had Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman...

Way too overrated IMO.
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 12:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Mike Shanahan to me is. They call him a genius and he is given all these other accolades but the last time I looked he hasn't won a playoff game without No. 7 behind center.
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 12:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I disagree about Jackson. 9 fucking rings man. And even after Jordan and Jackson left, the bulls still had a pretty deep team, but it went to shit. Fact is Jackson has done nothing but when rings wherever he's gone, and since taking over the lakers, he won 3 rings with them over teams in the west that were probably better then his lakers were.

I guess that means riley is over rated for winning with magic, worthy, kareem and scott? Or that K.C. Jones is over rated for winning titles when he had bird, ainge, mchale, parish, all who were considered the top players in the league at the point in time. If Phil had failed to produce titles like he did in chicago and the lakers ...3 seperate times of three peating...then I could see your case for calling him over rated. He's just a genius and one hell of a coach, winning titles doesn't make you over rated, having all the hype about you and not producing does.
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 01:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok, shouldn't he be able to win with only 1 superstar? His team is playing terrible right now, because all his legends are out... if he was a genious he would be able to continue to win, even if his team is banged up, I can think of one coach off the top of my head that managed to win for 4 years in the regular season at least, with only 1 star player... so you know it can be done. Just admit it, with 2 or less all-stars on his team, Phil Jackson just cannot get the job done, why do you think he didn't stick around in Chicago? LOL... because he lost Michael, duh.
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 01:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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How many coaches have one with just one superstar? Look at the teams that have talent and can't win. The t'wolves, mavs, kings, nets, pacers, those teams are loaded with talent and have been for years, and haven't won a ring year after year after year. Having stars doesn't make you over rated as a coach. So I guess you think that joe torre of the yankees is over rated as a coach? or that bill walsh was with the niners?
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 01:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Jackson definitely isn't over rated. Shaq, Kobe and the rest were ALREADY there before Jackson got there and the previous coaches COULDN'T get it done. Jackson came in and got them the ring in his first year coaching. He's got 2 HUGE egos to co-exist and win what they couldn't without him.
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 09:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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But oeo, why do you Bellichik is overrated. He is probably the best coach next to Parcells right now.
lol.....i was just throwing some names out there.....he has been able to get the most out of the talent he has been given.....but let's not forget that Parcells built this team into a contender.....Bellichik has taken what Parcells built and made it better, yes.....

but, over the long haul of his career......he was a flop in Cleveland, and he took over a team that had recently been to the Super Bowl.....i just don't know for sure that he belongs in the Parcells, Landry list quite yet.....after all, he took a Super Bowl team that lost only two starters to free agency and they couldn't return to the playoffs.....however, 14 in a row is very impressive.....
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 10:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
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lol.....i was just throwing some names out there.....he has been able to get the most out of the talent he has been given.....but let's not forget that Parcells built this team into a contender.....Bellichik has taken what Parcells built and made it better, yes.....

but, over the long haul of his career......he was a flop in Cleveland, and he took over a team that had recently been to the Super Bowl.....i just don't know for sure that he belongs in the Parcells, Landry list quite yet.....after all, he took a Super Bowl team that lost only two starters to free agency and they couldn't return to the playoffs.....however, 14 in a row is very impressive.....
I'm not saying he is one of the greatest coaches of all time. But I said right now he is probably one of the top 3.
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Old 23 Jan 2004, 11:03 AM   #15 (permalink)
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i cannot disagree with that notion at all.....he is definitely one of the best today.....
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