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GWOAT Round 2: Kerry Von Erich vs. Buddy Rogers
View Poll Results: GWOAT
Kerry Von Erich 4 44.44%
Buddy Rogers 5 55.56%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 11:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default GWOAT Round 2: Kerry Von Erich vs. Buddy Rogers

buddy Rogers didn't get a lot of votes but got enough to get to the 2nd round, will the voters get him past von erich?
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 11:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I saw Von Erich's matches, to me buddy Rogers was the precursor to Ric Flair, but he didn't accomplish as much as Flair, tough choice but i go with Kerry
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 09:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Kerry Von Erich.....I'll explain if someone wants me to.....but Kerry Von Erich should be enough.....

Buddy Rogers typified his era in wrestling, but he could not be considered in today's era.....Von Erich could have.....
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 12:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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OEO, Could you explian your vote for me bro'. I wanna here the argument.

The thing is if this was even Ric Flair v. Buddy Rogers I would vote Rogers over Flair. Everything in Flairs career even now, is exactly what Rogers did before. Its almost scary to see the simularities of these two. Buddy Rogers is a trailblazer for wrestling. And a man who should be one of the top 5 in this tourny. The Original Nature Boy who was the master of the Figure Four Leglock. Rogers was like the most hated heal ever. I say that with confidence that he was more hated then Gorgeous George. Rogers was the former NWA World Champion and one of the largest draws in the history of wrestling. Everyone hated this guy. from the 50's to the 80's he was an intrigate part of wrestling. By 61' he had won his first World Championship by winning the NWA world title. And for 2 years this working mans champ defended his title 5 nights a week. 2 years 5 nights, damn.......He would make history and what you people call the WWE today, when he and Lou Thesz would wrestle for the NWA world title and in some odd manner in a 2 out of 3 falls match Thesz would come out on top in the third fall when Rogers would be disquailified. However this made the some promoters not like the decesion and they broke away from the NWA and formed the WWWF. Buddy Rogers was the first ever champion. And that made him the first man ever to hold the both NWA and WWWF world titles. Something that would not be done again until Flair won the Rumble at 92'. He defended that title for a while and fueded with Bruno Samartino, who would be the one to eventually dethrown him. Later in 79' in what would be a classic event. Buddy Rogers went over to the NWA Mid Atlantic regoin. Classic because here in this region a man was parading around and emulating the Nature Boy. He was Roc Flair and he was doing everything that Rogers had done before. Rogers challenged Flair to a Battle of the Nature Boys and the Figure Four. Rogers in a class act would put over Flair in their battle and fued. Rogers would leave for a bit and then return to become a manager. This time he was a heel once again.(simular to Flair now) He would be get more heat then the wrestlers inside of the ring. One because the master knew how to work a crowd like no other. He managed Gene Anderson and Snuka who were young and consider the future of the sport(like evolution today....we see a pattern right lol). Once the team broke. Rogers disappeared and then would resurface in the WWF where he would have his own talk show(much like Flair would have years later in WCW, lol). Then he would fued with Lou Albano over the manager of Snuka and would come out on top.

I can't really think of to many people who should beat out the original Nature Boy. He has made an impact on wrestling that fans who now watch don't even know about. Shit most of the people on this board started watching wrestling after his death. However it doesn't matter because this guy really should sore to the top of this tourny. For he is truly one of the greatest wrestlers ever. Litterally better then Flair and a lot better then Von Erich.

I like Kerry but his largest moment was when he won the title in Texas from Flair after Davids death. And that was one of the most emotional nights in the history of wrestling. He was a multi WCCW Champ and later was an IC champion. But his legacy is in part because of his name, where Rogers Legacy is soly on him, and has influenced so many in the sport. Including legends who still emulate him today.....
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 12:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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OEO, Could you explian your vote for me bro'. I wanna here the argument.
give me a bit, I'm at work.....this ought to be fun.....

dang you, Dre.....
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 02:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Okay, this is all off the top of my head, so forgive me if it sounds like a mark talking.....(btw, great post Dre)

As a member of the Von Erich clan, Kerry Von Erich had huge expectations which only grew larger as the sudden death of his brother laid it all on his shoulders.....sure, brother Mike was around, and Kevin....but Kerry had to take the weight of the "Yellow Rose of Texas" along as his burden.....he followed in the footsteps of a great heel wrestler in his father (who had evolved into a legend in Texas wrestling, and a semi-legend around the US), a beloved David Von Erich (quite simply the best of his family) and carried the family name.....I won't go into a lot of the family history, probably because it has been gone over before and better than I could do it off of my head.....

Kerry was a true heavyweight when he started.....as a matter of fact, when he first began wrestling against people like The Missing Link, he was overweight.....but he showed moves that mirrorred his younger siblings ability off the ropes.....his arsenal was quick and graceful, yet grew into being a highly powerful wrestler.....he could easily grapple with the small guys and wrestle a technical style, but he could brawl with the big guys and not be overpowered.....

Kerry developed into a huge fan favorite, as Dre said winning the David Von Erich memorial in one of the most emotional matches ever wrestled.....but this wasn't about Kerry Von Erich being a wrestler.....this was about the Von Erich family, and he did the family proud.....carrying on the family tradition, he grew into a legend of his own in the Southern states......he could wrestle in a tag team situation or in a singles match and carry the crowd and the other wrestler.....his in-ring presence was that of a superstar, and he carried it well.....

Winning numerous tag titles with his brothers and who knows how many singles titles (remember that I'm doing this off the top of my head, so I don't have specific numbers) he wrestled against such people as Buddy Rose, Chris Adams, the Super Destroyers, Don Ho, Bulldog Bob Brown and was able to wrestle on their terms, not just his own.....if the situation called for Kerry to be a brawler, he was.....if he needed to be an indomitable force, he was......if he needed to be skillful, working holds and using ring psychology, he did that too.....he was one person who didn't have to work a given style to look credible in the ring.....

The only one of the Von Erich family who eventually made it to the "big time", Kerry Von Erich came into the WWF in the early 90's as the Texas Tornado.....became the IC champ in a relatively short time, and his charisma carried him to be a fan favorite.....Von Erich finally succumbed to the pressure of the "Von Erich curse".....too soon, he did not get to show his wares on the big stage for very long......

now, I know this probably sounded more like the statement of a mark than anything else, but let me explain a little further my reasoning for voting Von Erich over Rogers.....

Kerry Von Erich was someone like Davey Boy Smith (eerily similar, to steal your phrase Dre).....powerhouse of a man, battling demons daily, and finally succumbing to them.....but he also had the agility that a Davey Boy Smith didn't.....he could have worked a credible match with Rey Mysterio, because he was quick as a cat.....and he also could have worked a credible match with HHH, because he had the technical ability.....and he also could have worked a credible match with Kane, because of his strength.....

Buddy Rogers worked well with the wrestlers that fit his era.....not huge, muscular guys (strong enough, but not huge), and not quick, Lucha style guys either.....bland type wrestlers that worked two things.....the crowd, and in ring psychology.....lots of headlocks and armbars.....if he had ever gone to the top rope, he probably would have been afraid of the height.....therefore, yes, all you said about him is true.....but in today's era of wrestling, he would be no more than Steven Regal.....a great competitor who no one cares about.....

Kerry Von Erich could have wrestled in any era.....he was able to change his style to fit what was needed......Buddy Rogers, imo, could not.....

Was he the greatest technical guy?.....no.....
Was he the greatest high flyer?.....no.....
Was he the greatest on the mic?.....no.....
Was he the greatest brawler?.....no.....

however, when you add up the fact that he was very good at all of them, you come up with a darned good pro wrestler.....one who's life ended way too early.....

therefore, I voted Kerry Von Erich.....
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 02:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Two things and I leave you alone lol. One I disagree with Bulldog not being able to keep up with smaller guys. As for a long time in his career Davey was a Jr. Weight/Cruiseweight/Lightweight, call it what you will. He was able to showcase match's with smaller guys all around the world.

And the second I think when you watch Flair today its pretty much a safe bet that Rogers would have been able to ajust to the times of wrestling. He started in the 50's. He adjusted to wrestling in the 60's, he adjusted to wrestling in the 70's, and he did so in the 80's. Thats one thing that we can't say about Kerry. Nature Boy was able to adjust to 30 years of wrestling. If there is a safe bet, I'd say he was able to adjust to any period of wrestling. Exspecially today, where Playing the crowd is the key. Thats what he did he played the crowd. And the fact that Rogers was a Trididitional World wrestler, I think only proves that he would be able to adapt to any style of wrestling. Tridional Style is the style that all other styles come from. It is the style that allows you to be able to use to entire ring to wrestle. The style that puts Technical, Brawling, Power, Aerial wrestlig together. Just how Flair is able to adjust to the high flyers the same would be that of Rogers. Asking whether or not was he the greatest in those areas you listed don't really matter, because he was at one time the greatest at puttin ass's in the seat. Idon't like to use the "ass in seat" argument because I think its a copp out to an actual explination, but fact is he has done, more for wrestling then Von Erich and a boat load of others. Kerry wasn't even the greatest wrestler in his family. And I would have a harder time deciding over Fritz then Kerry. And further more I think that David was the better wrestler when it comes down to the two brothers. No one can say they were the first to win both titles, Besides the Original Nature Boy, No one can say they were the First WWWF Champion besides the Original Nature Boy and no one can say that they passed the torch to Ric Flair besides the Orignial Nature Boy. To me its about Greatness, and though Von Erich was great for about 8 years. 8 years of nice accomplishments can't compare to a Trailblazer who has done it for 30 years. And in that 30 years he has made history, in those 8 year Kerry only did what others before him did. Rogers shouldn't lose unless to Samartino imo.......
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 02:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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nice guys. I will have to say, that I was swayed both ways when reading your posts. I am going to have to vote for Rogers though. I'm a fan of guys who have managed to keep themselves relevent, and who have made huge impacts on the sport. I also admire his work ethic and how much he gave and then gave back in his later years, which is a lesson many of todays stars, including Flair are forgetting. The man had an amazing career and for oh, about 20 times longer than Kerry's. Now, I don't have anything against Erich, it's just that I don't have the same opinion of his impact and his legacy. I think he's really been carried by his name and if he was anyone else, might not be reviered so highly. But that's not really relevent. I have no real problems with Rogers style, though I will admit, I haven't seen very many matches, course I haven't seen a million Erick matches either, but for different era's and different times, Rogers was still one of the best in the biz. It's like comparing luchas to heavyweights, I'm just going to have to put each in their place and take them for what they were.

BTW, what's up with Buddy Landel in the records of nature boys? I never seen anything by him and don't really remember him when I was younger.
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 02:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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hey, dre posted more while I was typing
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 02:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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excellent return, Dre.....

Rogers did it over the course of 30 years, you are correct.....but Von Erich did it with the weight of three dead people and the state of Texas.....

alas, I know you are a Von Erich mark Dre, and if you are convinced others should vote for Rogers over Kerry, so be it.....I must concede.....

sure wish I could still watch Kerry now, though.....

to the voters, let Dre and I's discussion over this be a lesson about something.....just because a guy is great right now and has been for a couple of years, the accomplishments of a career are what makes the difference.....remember this when voting in the future, when Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle go up against someone like Sammartino.....

greatness for a few years does not always make the greatest of all time.....

nice, Dre.....
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 03:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah oeo, I am a mark of the Von Erich's so much pride and respect goes to that name. I love the history that surrounds these guys and they are truly imo, the best family in the history of wrestling. Though some could argue the Samoian family tree or the Harts are. I wish I was able to watch more of them back in the day, but being in the NorthEast is more of a Hart territory thing. You make a nice argument for Kerry and a respectable one for him too. While some try and shit on the Von Erich's name because of the drugs, you make light out of the problems that went along with that. From Wolly and Fritz to Lance and Mike the Von Erich clan is nasty. I didn't include Chris VonErich for obvious reasons in the respect part, but I do know that he had problems too.

As for your question Exo, Buddy Landel, is a guy who was the 3rd Nature Boy and I really don't have a clear cut history about this guy. For one I remember him in stints. He would be in and out of my viewing, But I don't think he ever won the big one. Though he did when his fair share of titles. I remember him in SMW the most and his stint in the WWF, but I don't know to much about his entire career. And if anyone does I would love to read it, because now I am starting to take an interest in the Nature Boy's as a whole. Very weird and interesting gimmick now that I sit back and think about it. I think Buddy Landel my have been the worse out of the 3, but I don't know enough about him to actaully make that remark.....
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 03:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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While some try and shit on the Von Erich's name because of the drugs, you make light out of the problems that went along with that.....
I would venture to say that the people who look down upon the Von Erich family because of drugs have trouble handling things like that in their own life.....I would rather look at the things they have been able to do inside the ring and in the sport of wrestling.....the piece that you posted in General a while back about the Von Erich family was awesome, and it talked a lot about what happened away from wrestling that hit that family so hard.....those are things that people have to deal with, and some are able to deal with them better than others.....unfortunately, that family as a whole has not dealt with them well.....as someone once said, that's the real world.....

as for Buddy Landel.....pfft.....he couldn't hold a candle to Flair or Rogers.....I mostly remember him from some time in Mid-South, I believe.....he would definitely be the one in third place.....it seems like he was a little more along the lines of a Ronnie Garvin, but that's going back a ways in my memory banks.....the Nature Boy franchise is a good one, for sure.....
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Old 26 Feb 2004, 02:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Leave me alone you two, I'm just one man!

I can't handle that much literature, That's enough to fill a short novel you two......
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Old 27 Feb 2004, 01:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Looks like round 3 is going to be a barn burner
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