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Lets Mess around with the list, replacing 5 guys for another 5 guys........
 
 
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Old 04 Jan 2004, 08:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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err Lets Mess around with the list, replacing 5 guys for another 5 guys........

Alright there isn't much going on around here this weekend so lets, see if we can get a nice little debate about this retarded list that the WWE made here.....What are the 5 wrestlers that stand out the most as not deserving to be on this list. And who do you think should be on it instead.


Bret Hart
Hulk Hogan
Andre The Giant
Honky Tonk Man
Ultimate Warrior
Killer Kowalski
Bob Backlund
Sgt. Slaughter
Roddy Piper
Don Muraco
Kurt Angle
Chief Jay Strongbow
Chris Jericho
Bobo Brazil
Bruno Sammartino
Mick Foley
Ivan Putski
Superfly Snuka
Razor Ramon
Argentina Rocca
Jake Roberts
Jimmy Valiant
George Steele
Billy Graham
Triple H
Steve Austin
Ted DiBiase
Wendi Richter
Yokozuna
King Kong Bundy
Buddy Rogers
Undertaker
Jesse Ventura
Shawn Michaels
Ricky Steamboat
The Rock
Fabulous Moolah
Randy Savage
Brock Lesnar
Rick Rude
Iron Sheik
Ernie Ladd
Pedro Morales
Ken Patera
Gorilla Monsoon
Ric Flair
Kane
Junkyard Dog
Paul Orndoff
Haystacks Calhoun


There were many more then 5 that I thought shouldn't have been on the list but lets see:

1a) Kane- Kane is truly nowhere near one of the WWEs all time greats. I can't truly remember anything that Kane has done that was interesting since he first came on the scene. That I believe was his best angle ever. He didn't talk; he had a legitimate storyline going, with a manager that was perfect for him, because it tied into the storyline. I remember Kane as a great prospect gone horribly wrong. His first couple of match's were buzz worthy and for that I was interested in him. But things started to fall apart for this man once they decided that Paul Barer was gonna be the father of Kane in a twist of events. I mean how stupid did that look. From there Kane was the world champion for 22 hours, losing his title the next night. I think that Kane is the anti-kayfabe of wrestling. There is nothing worse then when the facts of a wrestler change. Kane went from being locked up in a basement burnt and concealed to the world. To raping things, being able to go to parties with some girl name Katie, to driving cars and killing girls, to killing dogs, to being this person who he never was in the beginning. He also went from being a mute to talking full time. He was suppose to be burnt all over his body and it seems like he was never burnt at all. I think that the Kane project is a joke. It goes against everything that wrestling was once about. Are we suppose to just forget about shit that happens in the past, because that was what made wrestling good. The things that happened in the past that would continue to stay the same in the future. Kane has some aerial skills that I do give him props to, but his wrestling is steal and he isn't able to hold my attention in the ring. Now I see him as Isaac Yankem again in a different suite. It makes me mad and Of course Kane isn't one of the 50 best to step into the WWWF/WWF/WWE Ring. He is not even one of the top 100 in my book.

1b) I would rather have had someone The British Bull Dog Davey Boy smith. Although it is recorded that Davey and Dynamite left the WWF after not being respected. Smith I still think made a bigger impact and connected with the fans of the WWE much better then Kane did. Better as a heel and better as a face Davey truly put in his due when it came down to it. He was great as half of the Bulldogs, engaging in great feuds with the Islanders and Harts. I loved to see these guys wrestle. One of the good things about Davey was his story stayed the same, partially because it was true. He made an excellent singles run upon returning to the WWF. When he took on Bret for the IC title in 92’, it was a better match then I have ever seen out of Kane. I hated how he lost it to HBK, but that was still a pretty good way for Davey to put over HBK who when in his prime didn’t do it for others. I loved when Davey turned on Nash and became a heel. It showed that he was versatile and could play both roles. When he joined in the Hart Foundation, it was another milestone for his career and he played his role well. Smith was a great athlete and competitor. He incorporated power wrestling in with some great storytelling. He wasn’t a master of the mat, but he grounded and pounded about 3 times better then what we see today from guys like Cena. Davey Boy diffinantly disserves to be on the list, and Kane…….Well I think he sucked in comparison

2a) King Kong Bundy- Of there was one big man that stood out in my mind as God awful in and out of the ring it was Diffinantly Bundy. I find it funny how a man who never came close to winning a title could be considered a top 50 anything. Bundis entire title history is with NWA promotions. Not discrediting them at all, but he didn’t wins those in WWF. I don’t think that you have to be a champ to be one of the top 50. Jake Roberts was one of the greatest imo, and I don’t remember him holding any WWF gold either. Problem is that a lot of hype was given to Bundy because of his record breaking pin over Special Delivery Jones(wow that was so long ago). But it was SD Jones. He had a feud with Hogan, and if people had to judge those two wrestlers on that feud, they wouldn’t have Hogan on the list either. That was one of the most painful match’s to watch. All of them. It was just a boxing match practically. No wrestling needed was what the card should have said for this feud. The best win I think Bundy ever got was when he got a win over Paul Orndoff. Other then that there is nothing that makes this guy top 50. He couldn’t wrestle, He couldn’t speak on the mic, he did sell things well sometimes. But I would rank Bundy on the top 50 worse wrestlers list

2b) Instead of Bundy being on this list I can think of another big man who played a better part in the WWF. Bam Bam Bigelow was a great competitor. Bear with me for a second because the majority of Bam Bam’s match’s where done over in Japan. But he was in the WWF about the same time Bundy was. Bigelow was a good heel that could speak for himself. Also for a big man he was very agile. He was great with ground and pound. He sold his moves very well. And unlike other big men Bigelow utilized the top rope. Something that Bundy wouldn’t have dreamed of. Bam Bam made the crowd hate him, and he was rugged and believable in his approach to wrestling. The problem with Bam Bam was that he had to job to Lawrence Taylor (Vince’s fault as always) and he had to be involved with Doink and Dink (also Vince’s fault) However aside from those two stints Bigelow was solid in his performance he could tell a good story in the ring, and sell a great gimmick at all times. Bam Bam didn’t have people falling to sleep in the ring or wanting to shoot themselves in the foot, He was interesting. He teamed with Luna and showed he could suck up gross angles to perform. And I didn’t mind him when he and Nash were on the same side for a while. Bundy was nowhere near as good as Bam Bam. For more assurance all you need to do is look at Bundy’s work outside the WWE and look at Bam Bams. Bundy’s skills are nowhere near the level as the beast from the east.

3a) Don Muraco- I may be the only one who realizes that this man was all hype, and no performance. I look at Don and I see a man who depended soly on his physic. Don The Rock as he was known as was, as bad as a modern day Nathan Jones. His size is the only thing that got him over. A lot of his match’s were just botches and very slow pace. It is like pulling teeth having to sit and watch his match’s. Though they didn’t even last long because I think he was incapable of having a decent 20-30 minute match. Some will say that he being a 2 time IC champ does give him some credibility. And I agree back then it did add some credibility to him, but other then that Muraco was like a stone in the ring. Very slow, very poor storytelling, non-existing technical and scientific style. I will give him tha fact that some people really hated this guy, but it would be like watching Albert over the years and then seeing him implemented on a list of the 50 greatest

3b) I’m gonna say a better IC champ and an overall better wrestler was Tito Santana. The man did a lot for WWF back in the day. As a 2 time World Tag Champ and A 2 time IC champ. His title reigns and defenses were a hell of a lot more entertaining then anything Muraco was doing. Waaay before Tito was using the Flying Forearm, he was using the Figure Four for a submission. This leads me to the fact that Santana was a great high flyer, a great tag wrestler, a great storyteller in the ring, good on the mic as far as foreign bi-langue wrestlers goes. He was great on the mat as a technical wrestler, and he didn’t have a problem putting guys over. His work ethic was great and it was always s fun as a child to watch Tito while Jesse’ would call him Chico lol. Santana added more historic matches then the Rock Muraco and at the same time keep the fans interest. He was a solid performer and did a lot for Hispanic as far as crossing over to mainstream WWF. Tito could wrestle a match longer then 10 minutes and it wasn’t like pulling teeth as it was in Muraco’s case. All and all I don’t think that the Rock could out perform Tito, he never has and never will……

4a) Haystack Calhoun- This is the shit that I am talking about. Has anyone ever seen this guy wrestle. He was like watching Abdullah The Butcher with out the hardcore. I mean there is nothing for me to say about this guy. I don’t know how he even was a wrestler in the 70’s, but believe me he was far from a wrestler. As his fat ass wobbled it was painful to watch types of him.

4b) How the WWF thought this guy was an better athlete then someone on the caliber of Curt Henning it is beyond me. Henning was a sound wrestler. A great heel, and a great face earlier in his career. He could wrestle circles around fat people and skinny people. I thought it was appropriate to have Henning as Mr. Perfect, I mean who better then Curt. Ill on the mic, ill on the mat, storytelling like the greats, a 2nd generation wrestler who lived up to the hype. He was a great wrestler, a great commentator, a great executive adviser/manager, all this in the WWF. How this is a slap in the face to Larry the Ax and Curt……well its not a slap in the face its more like a low blow RIP Curt…………….

5a) Ken Patera- I give credit to where it is due, and this guy was an amazing athlete. Former IC champ and a good guy to have on your roster at the time. But that is where it stops when it comes to Patera. He couldn’t really wrestle. He couldn’t really talk and he couldn’t really hold a crowd or a feud that was worth while. He was a power house but I can think of a greater wrestler…..

5b) A greater wrestler more suited for this list would have to be Dino Bravo. Former WWWF Tag champ. One of the only wrestlers known to have to cancel a match with Hulk Hogan because the crowd was in favor of him, and not the Face Hogan. Dino was a great ring psychologist. He used what he had at the right time. Incorporating power with skill, and showing the crowd that he could be a heel or a face, but either way you were gonna respect him. Great work on the mic cutting promo’s he always had the feel like he was into the match. And the man has got to be one of the more underrated wrestlers of all time……….

Damn I’m tired of typing, but please do share who you think could have been replaced on this bullshit list
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Old 04 Jan 2004, 08:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sgt. Slaughter: Granted he drew a lot of heat during the golf war, a former wwf and awa world champion but aside of the mr. usa crap and the major heat of the gulf war he was nothing special.

Chief Jay Strongbow: Good wrestler when few natives got attention but nothing major about him.

George Steele: Guy who had no mic skills, aside of chewing up turnbuckles was one of the worst wrestlers i've ever seen.

King Kong Bundy:One of the few big men around, but after being fed to hulk hogan at wrestlemania II, there was never a real use for him and a big disappointment.

Junkyard Dog: Headbutt and that was it. No mic skills, no in ring skills and a poor excuse for a wrestler.
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Old 04 Jan 2004, 08:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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1.Jesse Ventura was a no talent bum in the ring who just happened to be built like a brick shithouse. He gains far to much respect for being a loud mouth and becoming the govenor of minnesota.

I would like to see him replaced with Owen Hart. A true great in the ring and on the mic. This is a man that everybody liked, and was dedicated to his job. So dedicated that he died doing it.... therefore much respect goes out to him

2. Andre The Giant sucked, plane and flat out the only thing impressive was his size... other than that, he sucked in the ring, and on the mike.

I would like to see him replaced by the Big Show... a man whose size is just as impressive, but he also has the talent to back it up.

3.Haystacks Calhoun how in the blue hell is some-one like this on this list...he sucked and he was just plane boring....

to replace him lets put in the exact opposite..some one entertaining....someone with talent...lets put in rey mysterio jr...who should be on this list in the first place

4. Yokozuna, not that he wasn't impressive....but how is he on this list without the undertaker.... one of the men who made his carrer in the WWE prosper....with out the undertaker Yoko would most likley would have never been in the main event scene
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Old 04 Jan 2004, 08:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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sorry....i never saw but the undertaker is on the list.....
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Old 04 Jan 2004, 08:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm going to disagree with Andre. As I said earlier in the wwe forum, you have to take into consideration the 2 eras andre was mainly wrestling in, and the fact that they didn't do what a lot of the big men today do, and for his era, time and in his prime before injuries he was an excellent wrestler.
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Old 04 Jan 2004, 08:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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WPG do you really think Rey should be put on the WWF's all time great list not even being in the federation for a full year yet, I could see AAA all time great list but i think there maybe be more cruiserweights better fitted for that spot then Rey Rey....
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Old 05 Jan 2004, 09:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't know who I'd replace them with as of yet, but I'll list some suckas who don't belong on the list...

Ultimate Warrior - Goldberg before Goldberg.
George Steele - I shouldn't even have to say this, because there is no reason for him to be on the list in the first place.
Wendi Richter - Why is Moolah's bitch on this list?
Kane - WTF??
Ken Patera - And what exactly did he do in the WWE that made him good? I sure didn't catch any of it.
JYD - WTF??
Mr. Wonderful - A joy to watch, face/heel turns for him were as common as showers are for French people (read: once a month). But he shouldn't be on this list.

That's it for now, there's others I'm sure but...you know.

Late.
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Old 05 Jan 2004, 10:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Franchise
WPG do you really think Rey should be put on the WWF's all time great list not even being in the federation for a full year yet, I could see AAA all time great list but i think there maybe be more cruiserweights better fitted for that spot then Rey Rey....
anybody but haystacks...i just used rey as an example because its the first name that poped into my head.... lex luger, Poppa Shango (Godfather), curt henning or dam near anybody else with charisma would have mad a better choice
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Old 05 Jan 2004, 11:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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1-Haystacks Calhoun??????????

I remember the name but No picture comes to my mind???

2-Andre The Giant.

why isn't The Big Show on the list?

The Big Show is light years better than Andre The Giant ever was.

That's right, I said it. The Big Show, often bashed by countless non-Paul Wight fans, is far and away better than the 8th Wonder of the World was.

Think about this logically: The Big Show, for all his plodding, is athletic. Remember the dropkicks he threw in his WCW match vs. Chris Benoit? Has anyone any recollection of Andre, as legendary as he may be, running EVER?? Could Andre have had a convincing stretcher match with Rey Mysterio?

The answer is NO.

Andre The Giant, may he rest in peace, was an attraction that, at his time in history, had never been seen before. A true giant among men. One of the most beloved performers of the 70's and 80's. A travelling freak, not unlike the bearded lady or the guy with two butts at your local carnival every summer. Andre drew money not because he was great, but because he was simply a freak. I am not dogging the man I have heard Andre to be (and I have heard everything from the nicest sweetest
man ever to the most miserable dude to walk the earth). I am sure his friends remember fondly the man Andre was...

...What I am talking about is the fact that Big Show is everything Andre could have been, should have been, but sadly never was. Big Show is an athletic big man with a more defined, 3 dimensional character than Andre ever was. A man who on more than one occasion has been privileged enough to hold the WWF/WWE title for more than 20 seconds. A man who can give you a good match against Chris Benoit, Rey Misterio, Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar. Truly, other than his good-to-very-good matches with Killer Khan and Hulk Hogan, I can not name one EXCELLENT Andre the Giant match. I'll bet you can't either.

Times, of course, are different. Today's fan, be they smart, mark, nethead, or some combo of these, demands more from pro wrestling. And while Big Show has turned in many a stinker, he truly cares about giving the fans a great show. You may never see him pull off a 450 splash (god help the man on the receiving end), or chain wrestle Lucha style with Ultimo Dragon, or match holds with a former collegiate champ like Lesnar. But for what he is, The Big Show has eclipsed the manufactured "Legend" of Andre The Giant.

And I for one think that it's about time you see this too.
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Old 05 Jan 2004, 04:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That in so many words is about how I feel and have stated about Andre in other threeds. He wasn't as good as Big Show, but Ice made a point and did say in different times different things were expected. Who are you other 3 Raven.....
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Old 05 Jan 2004, 04:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Oh and someone wanted to see who the WWE considers to be one of their best ever


http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com...calhoun/07.jpg
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Old 05 Jan 2004, 08:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BADMAN(RAVEN)
That's right, I said it. The Big Show, often bashed by countless non-Paul Wight fans, is far and away better than the 8th Wonder of the World was.

Think about this logically: The Big Show, for all his plodding, is athletic. Remember the dropkicks he threw in his WCW match vs. Chris Benoit?
Well, dude did play for Wichita State's varsity basketball team. I think I might have seen Show, cuz in the early nineties I went to a Syracuse v. Wichita State game. Old time SU peeps might know that was Collin McRae's first game back off suspension.

Anyway, yeah, Show is more athletic, but you have to look at the eras. Andre's era was a mat based era. There's no doubt that if Andre were to wrestle today, even if he was in his "prime," he'd be just as much a jobber as Show. Hell Badman, his sucking might deflect a lot of the criticism levelled on your boy Berg.

You're right though, Andre was basically a sideshow. I mean, the dude was piss drunk when he got slammed at WM3. Who among us with an iota of intelligence would do that? Not I, and not a good wrestler.

Late.
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Old 06 Jan 2004, 04:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Franchise

http://members.lycos.co.uk/qwe7/uploader/pic/07.jpg
what the hell????? is that Haystacks Calhoun???

oh sorry I did not post the other 3 I could replace are :

3-King Kong Bundy

how is he an "All Times Great" kind of wrestler? he is not that good.

4-George Steele

I see him as an all times joke. yes watching his matchs is only good for laughs.

5-Junkyard Dog

the fans loved this guy, but after his head-butt the matchs does not mean nothing.



on to the replacing list :

I would replace Haystacks Calhoun, King Kong Bundy, George Steele & Junkyard Dog with The Big Show, Owen Hart, Curt Henning & Davey Boy smith.
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Old 06 Jan 2004, 03:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BADMAN(RAVEN)
what the hell????? is that Haystacks Calhoun???

You better beileve it. Thats him in his prime
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