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Old 25 May 2006, 10:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double K
sure thing.
see, sure it's fictional, there's no denying the story is made up, they put that out there up front. BUT, for any person who does not know the true story of Christ, it lessens what my savior is really about. As for Spearit, i dont know if he caught my sarcasm there, i shouldnt have just said he proved my point.

it's like the saying goes, tell a big enough lie, tell it long enough, loud enough, and eventually people will begin to believe it. It might sound petty, but if you believe that God's only son took on a task like he did, for no other reason than to save me, the least i can do is refuse to let him be played out as a chump by people who could really care less about what he stood for, for no other reason than to make a buck.

man, i love a good movie myself, and i totally see your point. But that wasnt my point, it's not my faith that would keep me from the movie, it's the perception of Christ to others who dont really know what Christianity is about and how it cheapens the image of our savior.

im sure all of this sounds really petty and stupid, and at one time im sure it would have sounded the same to me, but (and i dont want to sound really holy roller type) but ive found something that was missing in my life, and i realize what Jesus has done for me, and it would be like if someone goes out and starts telling people that your dad or mom is a murderer, or a child molester or whatever. Sure it's a lie, you know it's a lie, but does that mean that everyone knows it's a lie? you know and i know people talk, gossip, whatever, and no matter what, even a not guilty verdict in a court of law will stop some people from believing that person is still a murderer or molester, it's human nature to speculate and fingerpoint. So is it right that someone that means so much to you is degraded by people who could really care less about what your father or mother has done for you? Sorry to ramble, thanks for reading this though.
I see your point...kind of

I however don't think it lessens Christ at all if he were revealed to be a husband and a father.

Also, if he had a wife and child and STILL gave for us all like he did....wow, I dunno, I guess it emphasizes his personal sacrifice.

If someone were saying he was a pickpocket or a rapist or something...I would be offended.

However, it has always been my belief that a man's ultimate purpose on this planet is to be a husband and a father...to think that my savior wanted the same things...to think that he had those same things......for him to have given that all up for me, so that my sins may be forgiven.

I don't think it cheapens Christ or Christianity at all.


btw...KK, I've read the Bible front to back multiple times

I've also read the DaVinci code....

I don't feel as tho my faith has been challenged at all

Do you get so angry about the Qur'an?
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Old 25 May 2006, 10:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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i am still going by the assumption (becuase i admitted in my first post i had no idea what this movie was about) that Jesus was portrayed as having an improper relationship and impregnating Mary out of wedlock. does the book/movie portray them as married?
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Old 25 May 2006, 10:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Double K
i am still going by the assumption (becuase i admitted in my first post i had no idea what this movie was about) that Jesus was portrayed as having an improper relationship and impregnating Mary out of wedlock. does the book/movie portray them as married?
haven't seen the movie yet

the book portrays them as married tho
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Old 25 May 2006, 11:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Jesus was a man...

So what if He had a woman?? So what if He had a kid??

I mean...Jesus wasn't a Catholic Priest or anything......He was a Hebrew Rabbi...I've heard from learned people that it's entirely possible that He was a Pharisee......He wasn't bound to any vow of celibacy or anything...

Wasn't it Jesus who said, "Man cannot live on bread alone"??

You didn't think Hhe was talking about fish, did you??

Honestly, I don't know that I could get with a Messiah who didn't have a little bit of playa in Him...





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Old 26 May 2006, 06:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double K
The bible is factual. forgive me if i chose to believe a manuscript preserved by God for thousands of years over a movie that no real God fearing man made. Show me in the bible where Jesus fathered a child and i will apologize.
See, that's a personal belief, one that the majority of people in the world don't believe in, so using it in an argument is kind of useless.

And why should we fear an all-loving God?
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Old 26 May 2006, 07:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The bible is not the true word of God, it's only what we've decided to use as God's word. There are missing parts of the old testament and missing parts of the new testament because the church decided not to include them. Btw there was a gospel of Mary that was not included in the new testament and while it never mentioned a child I'm pretty sure it did mention her being married to Jesus or that they were at least in a relationship.
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Old 27 May 2006, 04:26 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
KK...not to change subject or anything...

but The Bible isn't factual....I'll give you the Gospels...
As far as the Old Testament goes...I'm sorry I can't call it factual
The Gospels have Jesus walking on water, raising the dead and being taken to a "very high mountain" by Satan from which he could see "all the kingdoms of the world"... that's not factual.
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Old 27 May 2006, 10:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Double K
sorry guys, but my religion is one based on faith, i whole heartedly believe the entire bible is true, including a virgin born birth, Christ's walk on water , parting of the red sea, a flood that killed every person on the face of the earth (except the family of noah) , Christ's death and ressurection, and so on and so on.
I don't want to sound like an asshole, and I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to challenge your faith.

However, to me...even more important than the "factual" nature of the Bible, is the the teaching contained in the Bible.

Their are many lessons and teachings you can pull from the Old Testament...but I wouldn't call it a 100% accurate historical text.

The Bible was inspired by God but written by man. God is without err. Man is not.

There are many books of The Old Testament...different branches of Christianity acknowledge different books. I've seen a "Baptist Bible" it had multiple books I had never even heard of. Personally, I'm Roman Catholic, I would imagine "my Bible" has a few books you haven't read.

Most of the Books of The Bible were passed down thru generations orally. Have you ever played a game of Telephone? Details get changed in each telling. Odds are you and your friends have some shared experiences, but if I asked you both about one....you'd both give me slightly different accounts.

The Bible has also been translated from multiple languages, something is ALWAYS lost in translation. Their may not have been a word that properly expresses the original text, so they did the best they could and used the closest possible translation.

The books contained in each "Bible" has been determined by man....the differences in Bibles within the different denominations of Christianity alone, has got to give one pause.

From a strictly Faith based perspective....

The true nature of God could not possibly be understood by man. With this in mind, how could I possibly assume the book of Genesis is 100% accurate?
I do believe God inspired someone to write it, but I also believe He would inspire someone to write it down in a manner man could comprehend.


Like I said, to me...the most important parts of the Bible are the teachings and lessons we learn from reading it.

I don't know KK, I don't have all the answers....

SIDENOTE: Dade, now might be a good time to split this or move it to MOTM...
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Old 27 May 2006, 12:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 27 May 2006, 04:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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well the thing is there is a bit of a difference between religion and faith. You can read the bible 20 more times cover to cover if you like, but if you have no faith in it, then really what good is the knowledge? We are saved by grace through our faith. Without that, what difference would it really make?

I can see you believe in God, and so im betting since you think he is without err, you could be convinced that If God wanted us to recieve his word, then he would have it delivered to us without err. How could one possibly imagine a being so powerful be so helpless to allow faultfull men to make a mockery of his word. God's word is true, he said it himself, if you cant believe that, you should just toss your bible and stop wasting your time reading it. I know if my cover of my bible said, this might be the way to heaven, or well,............. it might not be, i sure wouldnt put a lot of time in it.

i know its not the answer you want to hear, but it's a faith based religion, faith is all i have.
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Old 27 May 2006, 08:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Double K
well the thing is there is a bit of a difference between religion and faith. You can read the bible 20 more times cover to cover if you like, but if you have no faith in it, then really what good is the knowledge? We are saved by grace through our faith. Without that, what difference would it really make?

I can see you believe in God, and so im betting since you think he is without err, you could be convinced that If God wanted us to recieve his word, then he would have it delivered to us without err. How could one possibly imagine a being so powerful be so helpless to allow faultfull men to make a mockery of his word. God's word is true, he said it himself, if you cant believe that, you should just toss your bible and stop wasting your time reading it. I know if my cover of my bible said, this might be the way to heaven, or well,............. it might not be, i sure wouldnt put a lot of time in it.

i know its not the answer you want to hear, but it's a faith based religion, faith is all i have.
You're right there is a difference between religion and faith.

I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I believe in the message of the Bible. I however don't believe it should be regarded as historical text.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, there are many different versions of the Bible. Which one is right? Is your Bible right? Is mine?

This God that is all powerful, that wants us to recieve His word is the same God that wanted to keep us with Him in the garden...but allowed us to eat the apple. If he REALLY didn't want us to eat the apple. He wouldn't have let us.
We were given free will, our Faith and our Religion are there to guide us. I believe His word was given to us, and it was left up to us to preserve it.

The God of Christianity is the same God that is worshipped by Judaism and Islam....The God of Abraham.

Yet all three religions have a different book. All 3 have many similarities and share many books...but they are all different. All claim to worship the God of Abraham. Which one of us did God give His REAL word to.

The Bible is inspired by God, but is the work of man. The message is where my faith is placed.
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Old 27 May 2006, 11:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pyXL
See, that's a personal belief, one that the majority of people in the world don't believe in, so using it in an argument is kind of useless.
You speak all the time about "the majority of people in the world" like you know them personally and oversee every single poll that's put out there.

Frankly, a person is capable of intelligent thought. People as a group are dumb as a post.

Example: The United Kingdom loves Robbie Williams. <---- "People" are dumb as a post.

Example: America loves American Idol. <----- "People" are dumb as a post.

What a person places the ultimate faith in isn't up for argument. A person's faith is unshakable in the face of "the majority."

Muhammad Ali stood against the draft, as it was against his religion. Now you probably love it because it was someone refusing to join the American armed forces, and the religion was the only one you don't hate, Islam...but the majority of the country castigated Muhammad for that, he was publicly disgraced, he lost his title and became a resident exile for a few years.

But I tell you I wish I had the balls Muhammad had to do that. And that he did it all for his faith is just a testament to the power of a person's faith. Muhammad worked from the age of 12 to become the champion. He worked harder and with more passion than anyone on this board probably will ever even come close to coming close to in the course of their lives.

He threw it all away because of his faith. That is power. Power you can't get if you can't understand the concept of faith.

Mother Theresa, instead of caring for the Untouchables of the world, people noone else would care for, could've just sat on her ass and talked shit about there being no God because she couldn't believe in something that she couldn't touch...and gone on to have some regular, nothing special life...

...but she had faith, and because of that faith, she went out and was basically the best person on this planet to breathe in air throughout the course of the 20th Century.

Even if you don't believe in God or anything...you should try to find faith in something. Yourself, the good of people, hope for the flowers...you really should find something to believe in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyXL
And why should we fear an all-loving God?
When you've done unrightable wrongs, you should fear God. Most people have nothing to worry about...

Late.






Late.
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Old 28 May 2006, 08:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, there are many different versions of the Bible. Which one is right? Is your Bible right? Is mine?

The God of Christianity is the same God that is worshipped by Judaism and Islam....The God of Abraham.

Yet all three religions have a different book. All 3 have many similarities and share many books...but they are all different. All claim to worship the God of Abraham. Which one of us did God give His REAL word to.

.
well, first let me say, i am in no way a scholar of Judaism, nor Islam. Heck, im no scholar of Christianity for that matter, im just saved by the blood of christ. But it's my understanding that there's a huge difference between Christianity and the former two, and that's Jesus. Judaism and Islam both recognize Christ as a prophet, But Jews are still looking for their Messiah to return, and they dont realize Jesus was the Messiah, and Islams Believe in the Prophet Muhammad as their Messiah.

As for myself, i only use the King James Version of the bible, The New Testament obviously becuase i follow Christ and the Old Testament because Christ himself had quoted and verified them as True. For example (and i just realized this this past week for the first time myself), I have decided to name my boy Jonah, so i was reading the Book of Jonah, and i always thought Jonah was swallowed by a whale but the book of Jonah says God prepared a"great Fish" to swallow up Jonah. Then i was reading in Matthew chapter 12:40 Jesus in facted verified not only the fish to be a whale, but verified the old testament book of Jonah to be true when he spoke of his upcoming death and ressurection by saying For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Hey, im like you, i believe in the Holy Trinity, i believe Christ is the Son of God, and if he says the Old Testament is true, im not gonna argue.




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Old 28 May 2006, 09:17 AM   #14 (permalink)
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It's factual status is smashed by the fact that it calls a whale a "fish".

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Old 28 May 2006, 12:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It's factual status is smashed by the fact that it calls a whale a "fish".

During the writing of the Jonah thing...if it lived in the water...it was a fish.

Ergo, by virtue of what was "scientifically accepted" at the time, whales were fish.

It was only later in the world's history, when antisocial scientists who were tired of being bullied and beaten up by normal people went to the seas...looking for forms of life to study that they thought "inferior" to themselves.





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