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Just wanted to get your opinions on this issue...
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Old 03 Oct 2005, 06:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Just wanted to get your opinions on this issue...

My school recently started punishing kids by suspending them (internal and external) or giving them detentions for wearing the Confederate flag in school. It was all over the news the other day. The kids claim it's part of their heritage (which, for 90% of them, is not true... this whole redneck thing has become a wierd fad around town). They also claim it's a free country.

The school is saying that what it stands for is offensive to some of the teachers and students.

Personally, I believe it should be banned, but it can't be. I think that it does represent slavery and hatred for African Americans and I can't understand why anyone would want to flaunt that part of their "heritage". The kids claim that slavery isn't the only thing it stands for and that there is some good in it. However, the Nazi's were a socialist government party at one time, yet, Hitler's reign destroyed any respect they had. If someone were to come to school wearing a swasticka, people would be going nuts. To be honest, I know a lot of these kids that wear the Confederate flag t-shirts or baseball caps and I can tell you right now that most of them haven't the slightest idea what it means and it's not part of their heritage.

On the other hand, I do believe that they can't ban the Confederate flag in schools because it does, in fact, violate the First Amendment of our U.S. Constitution which grants us, as American citizens the freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to peaceably assemble, and freedom to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Banning the Confederate flag would be a violation of our freedom of speech.

Thoughts?
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Old 03 Oct 2005, 07:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Slavery was only one issue of the Civil War, regardless of what people want to think, the war was not fought over slavery alone. The Confederate flag represents the rights of southerners of the confederate states who wanted more control over their states, having the right to govern themselves and breaking away from what they felt was unfair taxation and being governed by what they felt like were unfair laws. Slavery was a key issue, but not the only issue.

The flag should not be banned, and better history should be taught regarding the Civil War. It does represent heritage, it does not represent hate, nor slavery.

However you are probably correct that most people who wear the confederate flag have little knowledge of the history of the Flag and the war.
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Old 03 Oct 2005, 08:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Double K
Slavery was only one issue of the Civil War, regardless of what people want to think, the war was not fought over slavery alone. The Confederate flag represents the rights of southerners of the confederate states who wanted more control over their states, having the right to govern themselves and breaking away from what they felt was unfair taxation and being governed by what they felt like were unfair laws. Slavery was a key issue, but not the only issue.

The flag should not be banned, and better history should be taught regarding the Civil War. It does represent heritage, it does not represent hate, nor slavery.

However you are probably correct that most people who wear the confederate flag have little knowledge of the history of the Flag and the war.
I'll remember this as it is absolutely right.

Slavery wasn't even an issue until Lincoln's desperate cry for help (The Emancipation Proclamation) made it one.

As I recall, you are in non-panhandle Florida. In that case The Army of Northern Virginia's battle flag (never the official Confederate flag) should have nothing to do with their background as meauxst people in that area are missplaced yankees.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 01:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I believe that the kids there should be happy that their biggest issue is a confederate flag.

Around here, public school and private school kids alike have to wear uniforms. They have to carry see-thru plastic book bags. They cannot wear the color black.

BTW....Joe and KK, a flag is a symbol. The confederate flag symbolizes the Confederacy. The Confederacy will always and forever be tied to slavery....no matter what you argue to the contrary.

The Swastika was a symbol of the Nazis...however it existed long before the Nazis, and if I recall correctly, actually was a symbol of "good luck"....However if you were to show such a symbol to a survivor of the Holocaust I somehow doubt they'd say "Hey, that means good luck"

You don't say "fuck" (or certain other words) in mixed company....because its not polite, and you don't want to offend people.

Why would you allow someone to wear a flag that might offend people?
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 02:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Also...

The freedom of speech does not give people the freedom they like to think it does.

Just because you have this freedom does not mean you can "express" yourself in anyway you see fit.

There are laws in place to protect the rights of others.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 08:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebird
I believe that the kids there should be happy that their biggest issue is a confederate flag.

Around here, public school and private school kids alike have to wear uniforms. They have to carry see-thru plastic book bags. They cannot wear the color black.
I wore unforms when I was in school.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 11:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebird
Also...

The freedom of speech does not give people the freedom they like to think it does.

Just because you have this freedom does not mean you can "express" yourself in anyway you see fit.

There are laws in place to protect the rights of others.
Well, would you say that a gay kid isn't allowed to wear a rainbow shirt because it would offend somebody who thinks homosexuality is wrong? At what point do you draw the line on self expression to protect someone else from being offended?

People always hide behind the first amendment. It's annoying.

I'm all for uniforms in school though.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 11:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Uniforms never hurt me.

Generally offense comes into play when somebody wants to be offended.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 11:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Exo
I'm all for uniforms in school though.
That's a damn good idea. I have to wear a uniform (actually, pretty much every school in the UK has one), and it stops any of these judgments.

I don't know about anything else in this thread, so I'm just going to leave now.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 11:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exo
Well, would you say that a gay kid isn't allowed to wear a rainbow shirt because it would offend somebody who thinks homosexuality is wrong? At what point do you draw the line on self expression to protect someone else from being offended?

People always hide behind the first amendment. It's annoying.

I'm all for uniforms in school though.
That's like asking "what if a black kid comes to school and there's a racist kid there? Wouldn't the racist kid be offended?"

Homophobia is a hateful insecurity. You really can't compare a kid wearing a rainbow to a kid wearing a swasticka or a Confederate flag.

Back in middle school, we had to wear uniforms. They were a pain in the ass for me, as a student, to have ready to wear every single day, but I guess it did reduce the judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebird
however it existed long before the Nazis, and if I recall correctly, actually was a symbol of "good luck"....However if you were to show such a symbol to a survivor of the Holocaust I somehow doubt they'd say "Hey, that means good luck"
Something like that. I remember last time I was in Washington DC, we were standing in front of the White House and there was this homeless guy (I think he was homeless) and he had these cardboard signs with Swastickas on them. I remember my grandma started freaking out, but he tried to explain something to her about some God and stuff.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 11:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exo
Well, would you say that a gay kid isn't allowed to wear a rainbow shirt because it would offend somebody who thinks homosexuality is wrong? At what point do you draw the line on self expression to protect someone else from being offended?

People always hide behind the first amendment. It's annoying.

I'm all for uniforms in school though.
I see what you mean....I think the line has to be drawn somewhere. I , however, do not believe that I am qualified to draw that line.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 01:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sam
That's like asking "what if a black kid comes to school and there's a racist kid there? Wouldn't the racist kid be offended?"

Homophobia is a hateful insecurity. You really can't compare a kid wearing a rainbow to a kid wearing a swasticka or a Confederate flag.

Back in middle school, we had to wear uniforms. They were a pain in the ass for me, as a student, to have ready to wear every single day, but I guess it did reduce the judgement.
So what? You don't get to decide what offends people or what's right for everybody. You're offended by women in rock bands for goodness sakes. You don't get to play moral equivalancy when it comes to stuff like this. It's all or nothing, and as long as it's not out right obscene, you should leave it alone.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 03:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I don't see the problem, as long as it actually does represent a time in a familie's life, as it does mine.

As for the kids who wear it just because they wan't to enhance their rebel image, I believe they should be punnished.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 04:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spear
I don't see the problem, as long as it actually does represent a time in a familie's life, as it does mine.

As for the kids who wear it just because they wan't to enhance their rebel image, I believe they should be punnished.
So are kids going to have to bring notarized copies of their family trees to school to determine if they can or cannot wear a shirt??

If Printed T Shirts are going to be allowed, then the Redneck Cross should be. I'm not at all down with the association of the symbol, but get real people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Homophobia is a hateful insecurity. You really can't compare a kid wearing a rainbow to a kid wearing a swasticka or a Confederate flag.
Yes you certainly can. They are symbols of lifestyles that offend different people. Just because you think that one shouldn't offend people, doesn't change the fact that it does. You can't start splitting hairs when it comes to Freedom of Speech.

Regardless of what anyone says, this is America and Freedom of Speech means Freedom of Speech. It doesn't mean "Freedom of Speech as long as you agree with what the general consensus of what is right and wrong." It's that type of thinking that lead to people like Hitler rising to power and being able to commit the atrocities that he did.

Saying that someone doesn't have the right to wear a Confederate Flag on their shirt is just as bigoted and prejudiced as the assholes and the way of thinking that most people today associate with that flag...and regardless of what the motivation is to curb someone's right to expression, that's still wrong.

Late.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 08:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebird

BTW....Joe and KK, a flag is a symbol. The confederate flag symbolizes the Confederacy. The Confederacy will always and forever be tied to slavery....no matter what you argue to the contrary.
perhaps it's true that the confederacy is tied to slavery and always will be, but it's wrong to assume that the flag stands for slavery . a better knowledge of the war and it's purposes is the key to this issue, not banning the right to wear the flag.

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