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Old 01 Oct 2004, 04:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Debate Highlights

Here are the debate excerpts and yes, the phrase "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" pops up more than once...

---

George Bush: "My opponent looked at the same intelligence I looked at and declared in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat.

He also said in December of 2003 that anyone who doubts that the world is safer without Saddam Hussein does not have the judgment to be president.

I agree with him. The world is better off without Saddam Hussein."

---

George Bush: "Saddam Hussein had no intention of disarming. Why should he? He had 16 other resolutions and nothing took place. As a matter of fact, my opponent talks about inspectors. The facts are that he was systematically deceiving the inspectors.

That wasn't going to work. That's kind of a pre-September 10th mentality, the hope that somehow resolutions and failed inspections would make this world a more peaceful place."

---

John Kerry: "Well, you know, when I talked about the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?..."

...Jim Lehrer: "Are Americans now dying in Iraq for a mistake?"

John Kerry: "No, and they don't have to, providing we have the leadership that we put -- that I'm offering."

---

George Bush: "First of all, what my opponent wants you to forget is that he voted to authorize the use of force and now says it's the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place.

I don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place. What message does that send our troops? What message does that send to our allies? What message does that send the Iraqis?

No, the way to win this is to be steadfast and resolved and to follow through on the plan that I've just outlined."

---

George Bush: "My opponent says help is on the way, but what kind of message does it say to our troops in harm's way, "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time"? Not a message a commander in chief gives, or this is a "great diversion."

As well, help is on the way, but it's certainly hard to tell it when he voted against the $87-billion supplemental to provide equipment for our troops, and then said he actually did vote for it before he voted against it.

Not what a commander in chief does when you're trying to lead troops."

---

George Bush: "My opponent says we didn't have any allies in this war. What's he say to Tony Blair? What's he say to Alexander Kwasniewski of Poland? You can't expect to build an alliance when you denigrate the contributions of those who are serving side by side with American troops in Iraq.

Plus, he says the cornerstone of his plan to succeed in Iraq is to call upon nations to serve. So what's the message going to be: "Please join us in Iraq. We're a grand diversion. Join us for a war that is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time?"

I know how these people think. I deal with them all the time. I sit down with the world leaders frequently and talk to them on the phone frequently. They're not going to follow somebody who says, "This is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time."

---

John Kerry: "...When we went in, there were three countries: Great Britain, Australia and the United States. That's not a grand coalition. We can do better."

Jim Lehrer: "Thirty seconds, Mr. President."

George Bush: "Well, actually, he forgot Poland. And now there's 30 nations involved, standing side by side with our American troops."

---

George Bush: "The only consistent thing about my opponent's position is that he's been inconsistent. He changes positions. And you cannot change positions in this war on terror if you expect to win."

---

Jim Lehrer: Has the war in Iraq been worth the cost of American lives, 1,052 as of today?

George Bush: "You know, every life is precious. Every life matters. You know, my hardest -- the hardest part of the job is to know that I committed the troops in harm's way and then do the best I can to pro Carolina. She and her son Brian, they came to see me. Her husband PJ got killed. He'd been in Afghanistan, went to Iraq.

You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way.

I told her after we prayed and teared up and laughed some that I thought her husband's sacrifice was noble and worthy. Because I understand the stakes of this war on terror. I understand that we must find Al Qaeda wherever they hide.

We must deal with threats before they fully materialize. And Saddam Hussein was a threat, and that we must spread liberty because in the long run, the way to defeat hatred and tyranny and oppression is to spread freedom.

Missy understood that. That's what she told me her husband understood. So you say, "Was it worth it?" Every life is precious. That's what distinguishes us from the enemy. Everybody matters. But I think it's worth it, Jim.

I think it's worth it, because I think -- I know in the long term a free Iraq, a free Afghanistan, will set such a powerful in a part of the world that's desperate for freedom. It will help change the world; that we can look back and say we did our duty."

---

George Bush: "Now, my opponent says he's going to try to change the dynamics on the ground. Well, Prime Minister Allawi was here. He is the leader of that country. He's a brave, brave man. When he came, after giving a speech to the Congress, my opponent questioned his credibility.

You can't change the dynamics on the ground if you've criticized the brave leader of Iraq.

One of his campaign people alleged that Prime Minister Allawi was like a puppet. That's no way to treat somebody who's courageous and brave, that is trying to lead his country forward.

The way to make sure that we succeed is to send consistent, sound messages to the Iraqi people that when we give our word, we will keep our word, that we stand with you, that we believe you want to be free. And I do."

---

John Kerry: "...No president, though all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons..."

George Bush: "Let me -- I'm not exactly sure what you mean, "passes the global test," you take preemptive action if you pass a global test.

My attitude is you take preemptive action in order to protect the American people, that you act in order to make this country secure.

My opponent talks about me not signing certain treaties. Let me tell you one thing I didn't sign, and I think it shows the difference of our opinion -- the difference of opinions.

And that is, I wouldn't join the International Criminal Court. It's a body based in The Hague where unaccountable judges and prosecutors can pull our troops or diplomats up for trial.

And I wouldn't join it. And I understand that in certain capitals around the world that that wasn't a popular move. But it's the right move not to join a foreign court that could -- where our people could be prosecuted.

My opponent is for joining the International Criminal Court. I just think trying to be popular, kind of, in the global sense, if it's not in our best interest makes no sense. I'm interested in working with our nations and do a lot of it. But I'm not going to make decisions that I think are wrong for America."

---

Jim Lehrer: "New question, Mr. President. Do you believe that diplomacy and sanctions can resolve the nuclear problems with North Korea and Iran? Take them in any order you would like."

George Bush: ..."(W)e signed an agreement with North Korea that my administration found out that was not being honored by the North Koreans.

And so I decided that a better way to approach the issue was to get other nations involved, just besides us. And in Crawford, Texas, Jiang Zemin and I agreed that the nuclear-weapons-free peninsula, Korean Peninsula, was in his interest and our interest and the world's interest.

And so we began a new dialogue with North Korea, one that included not only the United States, but now China. And China's a got a lot of influence over North Korea, some ways more than we do.

As well, we included South Korea, Japan and Russia. So now there are five voices speaking to Kim Jong Il, not just one.

And so if Kim Jong Il decides again to not honor an agreement, he's not only doing injustice to America, he'd be doing injustice to China, as well.

And I think this will work. It's not going to work if we open up a dialogue with Kim Jong Il."

---

George Bush: "My concerns about the senator is that, in the course of this campaign, I've been listening very carefully to what he says, and he changes positions on the war in Iraq. He changes positions on something as fundamental as what you believe in your core, in your heart of hearts, is right in Iraq.

You cannot lead if you send mixed messages. Mixed messages send the wrong signals to our troops. Mixed messages send the wrong signals to our allies. Mixed messages send the wrong signals to the Iraqi citizens.

And that's my biggest concern about my opponent. I admire his service. But I just know how this world works, and that in the councils of government, there must be certainty from the U.S. president.

Of course, we change tactics when need to, but we never change our beliefs, the strategic beliefs that are necessary to protect this country in the world."

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Old 04 Oct 2004, 12:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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you are aware that public opinion polls say Kerry won that debate?
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Old 04 Oct 2004, 12:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
you are aware that public opinion polls say Kerry won that debate?
Yes. The shitty unscientific ones were bombed by liberal sites... thats why they show that way... That was shown on the news and that influenced those contacted by Gallup and other pollsters...

This is why I hate them Got-Damn liberals... too much fucking time on their hairy palmed hands.

I have to tell you that Bush won. Bush actually answered a few of the questions... Kerry talked about Korea...

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Old 04 Oct 2004, 01:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trevelbond
Yes. The shitty unscientific ones were bombed by liberal sites... thats why they show that way... That was shown on the news and that influenced those contacted by Gallup and other pollsters...

This is why I hate them Got-Damn liberals... too much fucking time on their hairy palmed hands.

I have to tell you that Bush won. Bush actually answered a few of the questions... Kerry talked about Korea...
Kerry did a little too much sidestepping for my tastes too, however Korea is a very real problem. One I believe Bush hasnt given enough attention to.

Kerry came across as a better speaker IMO as well, however Bush has never been a great speaker....so its no big victory.

Kerry comes off cold and uncaring, Bush comes off as childlike and slow.

I don't really like either of them
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Old 04 Oct 2004, 02:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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George Bush: "Saddam Hussein had no intention of disarming. Why should he? He had 16 other resolutions and nothing took place. As a matter of fact, my opponent talks about inspectors. The facts are that he was systematically deceiving the inspectors.

That wasn't going to work. That's kind of a pre-September 10th mentality, the hope that somehow resolutions and failed inspections would make this world a more peaceful place."

Disarm what? We still haven't found any weapons of mass destruction. I do not recall hearing it on the news, we found weapon chaches. That's about it. And how did he deceive inspectors exactly? Bush was hellbent on going into Iraq even during the inspections. His constantly changing "Iraq deadlines" are proof of that.

-------------------------------------

John Kerry: "Well, you know, when I talked about the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?..."

...Jim Lehrer: "Are Americans now dying in Iraq for a mistake?"

John Kerry: "No, and they don't have to, providing we have the leadership that we put -- that I'm offering."

The invasion was a mistake, helping to rebuild the country is not. It's that simple.

------------------

George Bush: "First of all, what my opponent wants you to forget is that he voted to authorize the use of force and now says it's the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place.

I don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place. What message does that send our troops? What message does that send to our allies? What message does that send the Iraqis?

No, the way to win this is to be steadfast and resolved and to follow through on the plan that I've just outlined."

At the time the war was being questioned about 60% of the entire country supported going into Iraq. Once we got there however the amount of support decreased. Let's face it, alot of people wanted to go into Iraq until the nation learned that we had used faulty evidence in going to war. Plus we disregarded the opinion of the UN by going in without waiting. That caused alot of people to change there mind. So yeah, maybe Kerry's a flip flopper but so's everybody who believed that war was the right answer until it was found out that our evidence that Saddam had WMD was bullshit and we started taking heavy casualites.

---

George Bush: "My opponent says help is on the way, but what kind of message does it say to our troops in harm's way, "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time"? Not a message a commander in chief gives, or this is a "great diversion."

Help is on the way? I think it's self explanatory what that means. What kind of message does it send to the troops in harm's way? Exactly what it means. Help is on the way.

As well, help is on the way, but it's certainly hard to tell it when he voted against the $87-billion supplemental to provide equipment for our troops, and then said he actually did vote for it before he voted against it."

Let's not forget about the bills attached to the $87 billion supplemental. It's those bills that caused some to vote againest it. Btw, this country doesn't have unlimited money. $87 is a big chunk of change. Our troops need help but so do our towns and our roads and our people. The reasoning for voting againest it is understandable.

---

George Bush: "My opponent says we didn't have any allies in this war. What's he say to Tony Blair? What's he say to Alexander Kwasniewski of Poland? You can't expect to build an alliance when you denigrate the contributions of those who are serving side by side with American troops in Iraq.

What's it say to all the countries that turned their back on us because they didn't agree with us? Yes, we have allies but we lost alot of allies because of the decision to go to war.

Plus, he says the cornerstone of his plan to succeed in Iraq is to call upon nations to serve. So what's the message going to be: "Please join us in Iraq. We're a grand diversion. Join us for a war that is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time?"

It's not about war at this point, it's about rebuilding a country and giving the Iraqi people their own working government.

I know how these people think. I deal with them all the time. I sit down with the world leaders frequently and talk to them on the phone frequently. They're not going to follow somebody who says, "This is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time."

They're not gonna follow someone who goes to war based on faulty evidence and turns to "a higher father" or "heavenly father" to justify going to war either. Maybe that's why we lost so many allies. Yeah, I'm really sure Bush knows how these people think. That's why we lost support.

---

George Bush: "The only consistent thing about my opponent's position is that he's been inconsistent. He changes positions. And you cannot change positions in this war on terror if you expect to win."

This coming from the man who said he didn't think we could win the war on terror but then said we could two days later.

---

Jim Lehrer: Has the war in Iraq been worth the cost of American lives, 1,052 as of today?

George Bush: "You know, every life is precious. Every life matters. You know, my hardest -- the hardest part of the job is to know that I committed the troops in harm's way and then do the best I can to pro Carolina. She and her son Brian, they came to see me. Her husband PJ got killed. He'd been in Afghanistan, went to Iraq.

You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way.

I told her after we prayed and teared up and laughed some that I thought her husband's sacrifice was noble and worthy. Because I understand the stakes of this war on terror. I understand that we must find Al Qaeda wherever they hide.

We must deal with threats before they fully materialize. And Saddam Hussein was a threat, and that we must spread liberty because in the long run, the way to defeat hatred and tyranny and oppression is to spread freedom.

Missy understood that. That's what she told me her husband understood. So you say, "Was it worth it?" Every life is precious. That's what distinguishes us from the enemy. Everybody matters. But I think it's worth it, Jim.

I think it's worth it, because I think -- I know in the long term a free Iraq, a free Afghanistan, will set such a powerful in a part of the world that's desperate for freedom. It will help change the world; that we can look back and say we did our duty."

Saddam was a threat. key term was. I mean, remember 98? Anything happen during that year? Hey didn't we send UN weapon inspectors over there and bomb some of their weapon factories? Hm yeah... I think I remember that.

---

George Bush: "Now, my opponent says he's going to try to change the dynamics on the ground. Well, Prime Minister Allawi was here. He is the leader of that country. He's a brave, brave man. When he came, after giving a speech to the Congress, my opponent questioned his credibility.

You can't change the dynamics on the ground if you've criticized the brave leader of Iraq.

One of his campaign people alleged that Prime Minister Allawi was like a puppet. That's no way to treat somebody who's courageous and brave, that is trying to lead his country forward.

The way to make sure that we succeed is to send consistent, sound messages to the Iraqi people that when we give our word, we will keep our word, that we stand with you, that we believe you want to be free. And I do."

Of course he's a puppet, anyone we help choose to run Iraq is gonna be a puppet. Until we don't have a say in the matter their leader's gonna be a puppet to us. There's a big difference between questioning someone's credibility and someone's bravery though. Kerry never called him a coward afterall and I'm sure e is a brave, courageous man.

---

John Kerry: "...No president, though all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons..."

George Bush: "Let me -- I'm not exactly sure what you mean, "passes the global test," you take preemptive action if you pass a global test.

My attitude is you take preemptive action in order to protect the American people, that you act in order to make this country secure.

My opponent talks about me not signing certain treaties. Let me tell you one thing I didn't sign, and I think it shows the difference of our opinion -- the difference of opinions.

And that is, I wouldn't join the International Criminal Court. It's a body based in The Hague where unaccountable judges and prosecutors can pull our troops or diplomats up for trial.

And I wouldn't join it. And I understand that in certain capitals around the world that that wasn't a popular move. But it's the right move not to join a foreign court that could -- where our people could be prosecuted.

My opponent is for joining the International Criminal Court. I just think trying to be popular, kind of, in the global sense, if it's not in our best interest makes no sense. I'm interested in working with our nations and do a lot of it. But I'm not going to make decisions that I think are wrong for America."

Not going to make decisions that are wrong for America? We're liberating Iraq, people are dying, Iraqis are dying, soldiers are dying, terrorism is centered around Iraq, people are struggling to stay alive and people are being beheaded or kidnapped weekly. I sure as hell don't think that that's right for America.

---

Jim Lehrer: "New question, Mr. President. Do you believe that diplomacy and sanctions can resolve the nuclear problems with North Korea and Iran? Take them in any order you would like."

George Bush: ..."(W)e signed an agreement with North Korea that my administration found out that was not being honored by the North Koreans.

And so I decided that a better way to approach the issue was to get other nations involved, just besides us. And in Crawford, Texas, Jiang Zemin and I agreed that the nuclear-weapons-free peninsula, Korean Peninsula, was in his interest and our interest and the world's interest.

And so we began a new dialogue with North Korea, one that included not only the United States, but now China. And China's a got a lot of influence over North Korea, some ways more than we do.

As well, we included South Korea, Japan and Russia. So now there are five voices speaking to Kim Jong Il, not just one.

And so if Kim Jong Il decides again to not honor an agreement, he's not only doing injustice to America, he'd be doing injustice to China, as well.

And I think this will work. It's not going to work if we open up a dialogue with Kim Jong Il."

Sooooooooooo Kim Jong II we know for a fact has nuclear warheads and we're trying to "reach an agreement" with North Korea. Meanwhile we "sorta think" that Iraq has WMD's and therefore we have to invade and occupy the country.

---

George Bush: "My concerns about the senator is that, in the course of this campaign, I've been listening very carefully to what he says, and he changes positions on the war in Iraq. He changes positions on something as fundamental as what you believe in your core, in your heart of hearts, is right in Iraq.

You cannot lead if you send mixed messages. Mixed messages send the wrong signals to our troops. Mixed messages send the wrong signals to our allies. Mixed messages send the wrong signals to the Iraqi citizens.

And that's my biggest concern about my opponent. I admire his service. But I just know how this world works, and that in the councils of government, there must be certainty from the U.S. president.

Of course, we change tactics when need to, but we never change our beliefs, the strategic beliefs that are necessary to protect this country in the world."

Mixed singles? I thought it was a mixed single when we were arguing that we should go into Iraq to find the WMD's. Now that we haven't found them our reason for going to war was to "liberate the people" and "take down Saddam". Mixed singles is one day deciding to go to war, and then saying we can't win the war on terror and then saying that we will win the war on terror. That's a mixed single.
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Old 05 Oct 2004, 09:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Why did Keary spend so much time on his plan to go after Korea by himself and get rid of the international support and pressure we allready have there, when he keeps talking about more international support in Iraq?
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Old 05 Oct 2004, 09:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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^^^I guess the same reason Bush went to war with Iraq instead of, Korea, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Chyna and Russia.

Because both these men are underqualified and neither is diserveing to lead anything, let alone the free world. Worse election ever, and I say that with Bush/Ducucas(sp) in mind..........


Edit- O and David Nice post.......
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Old 05 Oct 2004, 11:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exo
Why did Keary spend so much time on his plan to go after Korea by himself and get rid of the international support and pressure we allready have there, when he keeps talking about more international support in Iraq?
I don't know the real reasons, but this is how I look at it as a voter...

Kerry and Edwards backed by the liberal media has damned Bush for unilaterally invading Iraq.

I don't call this a flip flop but an out right hypocritical lie loaded with a couple of tons of pure grade AA bull shit. Kerry, Edwards, & the media sound like they want to promote a war with Korea instead, why? Why does Kerry, Edwards, & the media down grade the structure of diplomacy that the US, China, Japan, S. Korea, & Russia are in the midst of?

Bush tried diplomacy with Saddam, it did not work, and with all the broken sanctions Saddam created, we had to go to war. The WMD's was a bad call, but we still had at the time what world and the US believed was evidence enough to promote the actions the US and our allies made against Iraq.

Kerry wants to destroy the union of our trusted allies and US in order to promote his own political agenda. Through his lies and deceit, Kerry with help of the media and Soros is doing just that. Kerry discredits the negotiations taking place between our allies and N. Korea, he wants to make it just between the US and N. Korea, which promises to bring us into war again with the communist country.
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Old 06 Oct 2004, 01:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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^have I ever mentioned how nice it is to have you here yoda?
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Old 06 Oct 2004, 04:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I love you guys.

Honestly, no matter how much I disagree with some of the things said in here, I really do appreciate every post in here.

Unless it involves Page.
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Old 07 Oct 2004, 04:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageYoda
Kerry wants to destroy the union of our trusted allies and US in order to promote his own political agenda. Through his lies and deceit, Kerry with help of the media and Soros is doing just that. Kerry discredits the negotiations taking place between our allies and N. Korea, he wants to make it just between the US and N. Korea, which promises to bring us into war again with the communist country.
For how long we have been negotiating with Korea. One year? Two years? and yet we have not done a single drop of progress. In fact we took steps back since N. Korea broke negotiations with us and now he has a Nuclear missile ready for testing. Bush didn't lasted six months negotiating with iraq. And I find the president of N Korea more stubborn and least reasonable than Hussein.
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