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Putting Our Losses In Iraq Into Perspective
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 05:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Putting Our Losses In Iraq Into Perspective

Sadly, we've finally passed a 1000 deaths in Iraq. That's certainly tragic, especially for the families and friends of the soldiers who were killed. There is no such thing as "light casualties" to someone who loses a father, a brother, or child in a battle in a foreign land.

That being said, if we send our military into combat, we must accept that there may be losses. Unfortunately, that just goes with the territory. And when we look at past conflicts, wars, even certain battles, the number of men we've lost in Iraq is small indeed. Here are a few statistics just to show you what I mean...

1002: Soldiers killed in Iraq
1500: The top end of my own pre-war estimate of how many troops we could lose just invading Iraq
2403: Americans killed at Pearl Harbor
2976: Americans lost on 9/11
9,386: American soldiers killed taking Normandy
12,500: American soldiers killed taking Okinawa in WW2
24,000: American soldiers on both sides killed at the battle of Antietam during the Civil War
54,246: American troops killed in Korea
58,198: American soldiers killed in Vietnam
116,516: American soldiers killed in World War 1
133,811: Confederate troops killed in the Civil War
295,000: American soldiers killed in World War 2
364,511: Union Soldiers killed during the Civil War

Losing American soldiers is never easy for us to take back at home, nor should it be. But, every terrorist our soldiers kill in Iraq is one less terrorist who might turn up in our country in a school, behind the controls of an airplane, or strapped with dynamite. Our soldiers are risking their lives so civilians here in the states don't have to do so.

Moreover, our troops are not just helping 25 million Iraqis form a Democracy, but are setting a precedent that will help Democracy spread across the region. Not only will Democracy help drain the poisonous bile of radical Islam & the terrorism that goes with it from the region, it's the right thing for us to do.

Americans have been at the forefront of the fight for freedom so many times in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, and during the Cold War, and we're there again today. Maybe some people look back and regret that, but I don't, and I don't believe most Americans do either. George Bush and our soldiers are doing the right thing, for the right reasons, and while it may not be easy, nothing worthwhile ever is.

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Old 08 Sep 2004, 05:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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so.. what you're saying is... that 1,000 troops dieing isn't a lot?

by the time we pull out of Iraq another 1,000 will have perished... it's a sad thing but it's true, that's why we should be out now

anyways, you must also realize that 1,000 dead is pretty bad considering our defense budget is 400 times the Iraq one, and 1,000 casualites to us is like 20,000 was back in vietnam... if you get my drift
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 08:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chris Matthews
1,000 casualites to us is like 20,000 was back in vietnam... if you get my drift

That is the feeling today.

And, Desert Storm 2 isn't a good vs. evil war like it should be. The last being WWII. So, there are doubts about our involvement in this one, like Vietnam and Korea. We weren't attacked by Iraq, remember that.

There was something else I was going to say, but forgot. When I remember I'll post it.
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I did. Remember?? You're just following me around acting like a little bitch posting after every post I put down because...well, because hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

You're probably sitting there wishing you had a pic of my kids so you could Photoshop them onto something because that's all you can really do.

Sure...you can take a run at numbfuck SC or plainjane Josh or complete moron Alex or can't get out of his own way Boston...but I don't agree with you about Barry and it's "Rueben Droughns this" "weed that" "your kids this" "Look at me and my halo over my head that."

Whatever. First of all, you don't have any depth of knowledge about any of that stuff, so you're just talking out of your ass. Secondly, you wouldn't be saying any of that shit if Barry Bonds wasn't some roided up freak who you're in love with.

It's fucking gay. I have better things to do than deal with someone who can't even debate a point, rather changes the subject again and again to deflect the fact that he's dead wrong. It's what dumbass 6th graders do...


I honestly don't give a fuck about your opinion. Like I told Alex, they're just words on a screen. I can't believe you don't get that concept...but okay.

I mean...you're the kind of guy that thinks if you yell louder than the other person, you will win a debate. And that's not new either...I've pretty much thought that about you from day one...

I didn't want to put it that way, but since you want to press on...

Lame dude. Just lame. I have better shit to do. You probably should too...but I'm betting you don't...

Late.
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 08:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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And, Desert Storm 2 isn't a good vs. evil war like it should be. The last being WWII. So, there are doubts about our involvement in this one, like Vietnam and Korea. We weren't attacked by Iraq, remember that.
ahh.. the cold war

i don't know why, but the soviet union now that i have watched several programs on it and read many articles seems as if it was america in the 1950's while the people here were snorting shit up their noses in the 70's

i know this is off topic.. but the fact that korea and vietnam was mentioned here just makes me think that this nation has shown a lot of paranoia, i mean, did they really think that if a small little country becomes communist that the whole world would change? no nukes would of ever been launched, as the Soviet's as well as the american's knew that it would result in the end of the world.
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 09:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Trev, I'm glad you posted this. I won't have toresaerch anymore, you've done the work for me and posted it.
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 09:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Groucheaux
Trev, I'm glad you posted this. I won't have toresaerch anymore, you've done the work for me and posted it.
you know, those "terrorists" that trev is reffering to are most likely resident Iraqi's who just want us to LEAVE...
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 09:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My good man I believe you quoted the wrong one. That post to nothing to do with terrorists.
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 10:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucheaux
My good man I believe you quoted the wrong one. That post to nothing to do with terrorists.
i dunno, it seemed as if you were quoting his whole thing, so, i thought you mean't that sorry
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 10:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hey, the only sure way to rid us of the Islamic terrorists is to kill them all. They all wear the same shit and act the same. So, you can't tell them apart.

I tell you this, if I get sent over there, if one rag-head flinches at me I will not hesitate to shoot it. It won't bother me if that Iraqi is a kid or a women.
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Originally Posted by The Glue totally owning and exposing EXO

I did. Remember?? You're just following me around acting like a little bitch posting after every post I put down because...well, because hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

You're probably sitting there wishing you had a pic of my kids so you could Photoshop them onto something because that's all you can really do.

Sure...you can take a run at numbfuck SC or plainjane Josh or complete moron Alex or can't get out of his own way Boston...but I don't agree with you about Barry and it's "Rueben Droughns this" "weed that" "your kids this" "Look at me and my halo over my head that."

Whatever. First of all, you don't have any depth of knowledge about any of that stuff, so you're just talking out of your ass. Secondly, you wouldn't be saying any of that shit if Barry Bonds wasn't some roided up freak who you're in love with.

It's fucking gay. I have better things to do than deal with someone who can't even debate a point, rather changes the subject again and again to deflect the fact that he's dead wrong. It's what dumbass 6th graders do...


I honestly don't give a fuck about your opinion. Like I told Alex, they're just words on a screen. I can't believe you don't get that concept...but okay.

I mean...you're the kind of guy that thinks if you yell louder than the other person, you will win a debate. And that's not new either...I've pretty much thought that about you from day one...

I didn't want to put it that way, but since you want to press on...

Lame dude. Just lame. I have better shit to do. You probably should too...but I'm betting you don't...

Late.
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Old 08 Sep 2004, 10:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucheaux
My good man I believe you quoted the wrong one. That post to nothing to do with terrorists.
But earlier in the other thread, you mentioned what if the cilvilians in Iraq could be insergents (Terriorist) in hiding? Are you generalizing that the civilians coming from that country could be all terriosts? or thats not the case? Please clarify.
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Old 09 Sep 2004, 03:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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by posting the number of troops who have died Trev, its almost like you are trivializing the casualties.

You said "putting the losses into perspective"

Thats essentially saying...yeah, we lost 1000 but we lost so many more here....
1 American death is too much...that is the only way to look at it.
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Old 09 Sep 2004, 06:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kurt Angle
by posting the number of troops who have died Trev, its almost like you are trivializing the casualties.

You said "putting the losses into perspective"

Thats essentially saying...yeah, we lost 1000 but we lost so many more here....
1 American death is too much...that is the only way to look at it.

As opposed to what? Thousands of foriegn deaths? The attitude of "as long as it isn't Americans it's not our problem" has got to stop. It's what got us Pearl Harbor and it's what got us 9-11. Ignoring people's deaths and ignoring the people who cause them until they directly affect us because "we dont' want to lose one American life" is almost as bad as the scumfucks doing the actual murdering.
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Old 09 Sep 2004, 07:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hostility
As opposed to what? Thousands of foriegn deaths? The attitude of "as long as it isn't Americans it's not our problem" has got to stop. It's what got us Pearl Harbor and it's what got us 9-11. Ignoring people's deaths and ignoring the people who cause them until they directly affect us because "we dont' want to lose one American life" is almost as bad as the scumfucks doing the actual murdering.
Like I said in the other thread....so I suppose we should go after China...and just keep Americanizing the globe?

Pearl Harbor and 9-11 were both results of Americans being cocky. We thought we couldnt be touched...we weren't prepared for an attack on our own soil. So now we should spread our troops thin across the globe to fix everyone elses problems...because America knows best of course. Not only is this egotistical on our part, but its poor strategy.

Why do we thing our government is so much superior to everyone elses? Where do we get that right? You can use the "we don't kill our own people" line...but that is not a real reason we invade countries. We do it when it suits our purposes. Iraq just so happens to be an area rich in oil. There is a lot of money to be made there. Sadaam may have had WMD. China kills its people and they have nukes...but we dont invade them. Why is that? It doesnt suit Uncle Sam's agenda.

We need to focus on the problems at home before we worry about the problems of every other country.

The United States should be ranked at the top of International Education...we aren't. Maybe we should make sure that our children have the proper tools to make informed decisions, so that they can become better leaders in tomorrows world. Maybe if we start teaching them now, to be more tolerant...to think things thru...to take care of each other...maybe when they begin to take power we can begin to find peaceful solutions to problems.

As for the Trev's numbers.

The impression I got from it is he is saying
"Yeah we may have lost 1002 soldiers in Iraq, but we lost 54,246 in Korea."

Its like he's saying those 1000 men and women arent that many. 1000 men and women are too many casualties. Its true, 54000 is much larger than 1000...however the loss is no less great.
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Old 09 Sep 2004, 09:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hostility
As opposed to what? Thousands of foriegn deaths? The attitude of "as long as it isn't Americans it's not our problem" has got to stop. It's what got us Pearl Harbor and it's what got us 9-11. Ignoring people's deaths and ignoring the people who cause them until they directly affect us because "we dont' want to lose one American life" is almost as bad as the scumfucks doing the actual murdering.
^Agreed, 100%...Hmm.. thats s first..
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Old 09 Sep 2004, 05:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Angle
Like I said in the other thread....so I suppose we should go after China...and just keep Americanizing the globe?

Pearl Harbor and 9-11 were both results of Americans being cocky. We thought we couldnt be touched...we weren't prepared for an attack on our own soil. So now we should spread our troops thin across the globe to fix everyone elses problems...because America knows best of course. Not only is this egotistical on our part, but its poor strategy.

Why do we thing our government is so much superior to everyone elses? Where do we get that right? You can use the "we don't kill our own people" line...but that is not a real reason we invade countries. We do it when it suits our purposes. Iraq just so happens to be an area rich in oil. There is a lot of money to be made there. Sadaam may have had WMD. China kills its people and they have nukes...but we dont invade them. Why is that? It doesnt suit Uncle Sam's agenda.

We need to focus on the problems at home before we worry about the problems of every other country.

The United States should be ranked at the top of International Education...we aren't. Maybe we should make sure that our children have the proper tools to make informed decisions, so that they can become better leaders in tomorrows world. Maybe if we start teaching them now, to be more tolerant...to think things thru...to take care of each other...maybe when they begin to take power we can begin to find peaceful solutions to problems.

As for the Trev's numbers.

The impression I got from it is he is saying
"Yeah we may have lost 1002 soldiers in Iraq, but we lost 54,246 in Korea."

Its like he's saying those 1000 men and women arent that many. 1000 men and women are too many casualties. Its true, 54000 is much larger than 1000...however the loss is no less great.

The trick is, we're always going to have problems here in the US. There will not be a day that goes by that we don't have something that needs to be fixed. If we only look to ourselves we will never see what's coming at us. And there's a difference between telling another country that our way is better and stopping a murderer from killing his people. The US has many, many programs in place to help the poor. Our education system's failures has as much to do with the additude of the students and the teachers as it does with funding. We have some of the best colleges on the planet. People from all over the world come to the US to attend our schools. There is a point where the gov't has done all it can do and it's the people's responsibility to improve their own lives. Again, America will always have problems, every nation will.

And the China argument is just dumb based plainly on the fact that an open fullscale war with them would solve nothing and only cause the world more problems. The only way to get a nation that powerful to change is to do pretty much what we're doing now. Deposing smaller dictators, and rallying the more powerful free nations of the world behind the "stop slaughtering your people" cause. China has already made steps to adress it's humanitarian issues since Tiananmen square and the fall of Soviet communism. It still has ways to go but it is getting better.
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