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Old 30 Jul 2004, 05:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What are everyones thoughts on this, I myself have no problem with it. When I smoke I just sit back, chill and watch tv. I still have no idea why this drug is illegal. I've heard so many arguments, they cant tax it, it causes death...well from what I've seen online, nobodys died from using marijuana, what are your thoughts?
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Old 30 Jul 2004, 05:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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In my social libertarinaism... I say legalize all drugs.
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Old 30 Jul 2004, 09:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It's just as harmful as tobacco. I don't see ppl going to jail for Marlboros I don't know ppl who got throat/mouth cancer from weed. Make it legal, and you can have a little more control.
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Old 30 Jul 2004, 09:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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For real man, I had a good time the other night, I was watching some old sitcoms and got really into them..literally :P I think its just a matter of time before its legal, some big online debates have been going on.
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Old 02 Aug 2004, 10:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I posted an article in this forum a month or so back that talked about how more teenagers are smoking cannabis then cigarettes. In this article they explore the fact that for tobacco and alcohol products there is the "We Card" program that has grown in popularity in the past 3-5 years. They cite this as one of the big reasons tobacco use is down among teens. They then talk about how this program should have cannabis products included instead of the current illegal model that isn't helping anybody except for the organized crime rings and our own government and law enforcement. Teens say MJ is as easy as ever to find now a days and much easier to obtain then tobacco and alcohol largely because very few dealers care about selling to a minor.

Needless to say I do support the legalization and regulation of cannabis however I do not have high hopes that it will ever come to pass in the states. Without the widespread terror that cannabis is destroying all of the nations youth the "War on (some) Drugs" could never get the funding they are getting now. That means less funding for all those narcotics officers they've trained and less funding for the Office for the National Drug Control Policy. Do you think these people want to see cannabis legalized? HELL NO! You'd be taking away their cash cow. I wont even get into pharmecutical companies, lobbyists, and politicans at this time.

In end I must say I am glad to see the steps Canada is taking towards a national decrim policy and hope that if nothing else a similar model could be brought to the US. I could deal with paying a ticket if I get caught, fortunately I haven't yet however there have been a few VERY close calls. We have a decrim model here in Ohio but it is a sham. If you get busted with anything at all be it actual possesion of cannabis or just having a pack of rolling papers on you there is an automatic 6 month license suspension...even if you were nowhere near a car at the time.
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Old 12 Aug 2004, 05:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dade Draven
It's just as harmful as tobacco. I don't see ppl going to jail for Marlboros I don't know ppl who got throat/mouth cancer from weed. Make it legal, and you can have a little more control.
I believe its less harmful than tobbaco. The tar in tobbaco kills the lungs. I've never had any breathing problems since I quit smoking tobbaco, yet I still smoke weed heavily. I think theres a big difference, then again I could be wrong.
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Old 12 Aug 2004, 06:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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^ There is actually more tar generated by marijuana burning however there are FAR less harmful carcinogens in marijuana. Also even heavy marijuana smokers don't smoke anywhere near the volume that an average tobacco smoker does. Not to mention most tobacco smokers only consume via pipe, cigar, or cigarette. Meanwhile marijuana users more often make use of water bongs which cool the smoke thus causing it to do less damage as well as filter out much of the tar and carcinogens which is then trapped in the water for disposal. There are also vaporizers for marijuana users which work by heating the plant matter to the right tempeture that makes the THC active and seperate from the plant matter. You take in these THC vapors and never have a bit of smoke hit your lungs. The plant matter can be kept and when you get a large amount(>30g) you can use it in cooking. Which brings me to eating marijuana as the third way cannabis users can ingest their favorite plant without worrying about damaging their lungs.

I wont get into the fact that there have been studies that show that certain cannabinoids ingested in cannabis use actually retards either the growth of cancer in tumors or the growth of tumors themselves(sorry, can't remember right now and I gotta leave). Or that research shows that the human body naturally from birth has several of the same cannabinoids in it that the cannabis plant has, and that there is a possibility that cannabinoids can be used in the same way as stem cells are being used, if only the government would be supportive of the studies. Instead they're worried about losing their precious War on Drugs that brings in billions from you and me every year.

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Old 12 Aug 2004, 07:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towelie
^ There is actually more tar generated by marijuana burning however there are FAR less harmful carcinogens in marijuana. Also even heavy marijuana smokers don't smoke anywhere near the volume that an average tobacco smoker does. Not to mention most tobacco smokers only consume via pipe, cigar, or cigarette. Meanwhile marijuana users more often make use of water bongs which cool the smoke thus causing it to do less damage as well as filter out much of the tar and carcinogens which is then trapped in the water for disposal. There are also vaporizers for marijuana users which work by heating the plant matter to the right tempeture that makes the THC active and seperate from the plant matter. You take in these THC vapors and never have a bit of smoke hit your lungs. The plant matter can be kept and when you get a large amount(>30g) you can use it in cooking. Which brings me to eating marijuana as the third way cannabis users can ingest their favorite plant without worrying about damaging their lungs.

I wont get into the fact that there have been studies that show that certain cannabinoids ingested in cannabis use actually retards either the growth of cancer in tumors or the growth of tumors themselves(sorry, can't remember right now and I gotta leave). Or that research shows that the human body naturally from birth has several of the same cannabinoids in it that the cannabis plant has, and that there is a possibility that cannabinoids can be used in the same way as stem cells are being used, if only the government would be supportive of the studies. Instead they're worried about losing their precious War on Drugs that brings in billions from you and me every year.

Nice.....

Erb should be legal there is nothing about it that harms society. Not to mention Cigs and Liquer are way more harmful overall.

Also certian product industries lobby against legalization of marijuana, because it would hurt a lot of companies with how cheap it is to grow hemp and then use it in everyday life.
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Old 12 Aug 2004, 09:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This is an interesting article about the current administration's stance on the drug war.


Quote:
Bush's Born Again Drug War
By Paul Armentano, AlterNet
Posted on August 12, 2004, Printed on August 12, 2004
http://www.alternet.org/story/19547/

Listen to George Walker Bush speak about substance abuse and it's apparent that one is listening to a preacher, not a president. "There are faith-based organizations in drug treatment that work so well because they convince a person to turn their life over to Christ," Bush divulged to the religious journal Christianity Today. "By doing so, they change a person's heart [and] a person with a changed heart is less likely to be addicted to drugs and alcohol."

Despite US Constitutional restrictions requiring a separation of church and state, Bush's ardent Judeo-Christian faith ? the President is a practicing Methodist who "accepted Jesus Christ into [his] life" in 1986 ? remains the staple of his administration's anti-drug platform. Whereas previous administrations commonly framed their anti-drug arguments in secular terms (i.e., former President Richard Nixon's "War on Drugs" or the Reagan administration's "Just Say No" campaign), Bush's drug war, at least rhetorically, resembles that of a religious crusade. GW's bottom line: Only through "God's will" may one be "saved" from the temptations of illegal drugs. It's a stance that many drug law reformers view as not only ineffective, but possibly illegal.

President Or Proselytizer?

"You know, I had a drinking problem. Right now I should be in a bar in Texas, not the Oval Office," Bush told author David Frum in his 2003 biography The Right Man. "There is only one reason that I am in the Oval Office and not in a bar. I found faith. I found God. I am here because of the powers of prayer."

While stories recounting the President's prior alcohol and drug use ? so-called "youthful indiscretions" ? are well publicized, not as well known is his 1986 spiritual awakening that led him to quit his use of intoxicants cold turkey. It's this personal journey that led Bush to reach his conclusion that other drug users ? recreational pot smokers in particular ? must also undergo their own, albeit coerced, religious conversion to achieve drug abstinence. After four years in office, it's clear that Bush is willing to use the bully pulpit and Congress' deep pockets to accomplish his goal: a drug-free, religiously indoctrinated America.

As President, one of Bush's first actions was to sign an executive order establishing a White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, presently headed by "Faith Czar" Jim Towey. In 2002, the Bush administration awarded nearly 500 faith-based programs ? including several drug "education" and treatment programs ? $477 million in taxpayers' funding. In 2002, Bush doled out an additional $568 million in federal funds to 680 self-identified faith-based groups ? programs like the fundamentalist Christian drug-treatment project "Set Free Indeed," which states: "We rely solely on the foundation of the Word of God to break the bands of addiction. Once a person ... recognizes that only God can set them free, the rebuilding process can begin." To date, the Bush administration has funneled several million dollars to "Set Free Indeed," and the President singled out its founder by name during his 2003 State of the Union address, lauding it as a shining example of federally-backed faith-based drug treatment.

Religion has also been the theme of several new, high profile anti-drug campaigns launched by the administration. In 2003, just months after being tapped by Bush to head the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Karen Tandy threw her weight behind a grassroots anti-drug campaign called "Pray for the Children," which according to the group's website, maintains, "The power of prayer is unequaled" in influencing adolescents from refraining from drug use. Regarding her endorsement of the program, Tandy explained, "Drug abuse is a scourge that attacks a person's soul as well as body, so it's fitting that the solution should engage the soul as well."

Also last year, Bush launched "Faith. The Anti-Drug," a multi-million dollar campaign to encourage the religious community to incorporate pot abstinence into their spiritual teachings. "Faith plays a powerful role in preventing youth marijuana use," announced Drug Czar John Walters ? himself a disciple of notorious "virtuecrat" and former drug czar William Bennett ? at the campaign's kickoff party. He added, "We are urging youth ministers, volunteers and faith leaders to integrate drug prevention messages and activities into their sermons and youth programming, and are providing them with key tools and resources to make a difference."

Faith. The Anti-drug?

But are such campaigns "making a difference?" And are they even appropriate? Critics resoundingly say "no" on both counts.

"Religious drug treatment programs [like those favored by Bush] turn back the medical clock to the 19th Century," says Samantha Smoot of the Texas Freedom Network, a faith-based initiative watchdog group whose membership includes over 7,500 religious and community leaders. "The President values programs that say: 'We can pray you out of your addiction' more than programs that say: 'We will treat your addiction with counseling, medical treatment and spirituality.' Even more outrageous is his insistence that taxpayers foot the bill for his dangerous approach."

It's also potentially unconstitutional, according to Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Executive Director of Americans United, a religious liberty watchdog group based in Washington, D.C. that argues for the importance of church-state separation in safeguarding religious freedom. "This is a massive shell game," he says. "The administration insists no public funds will be spent on religion, then turns those funds over to groups that openly brag about how much religion they have in their programs. The level of duplicity is staggering."

However, according to drug law reformer Charles Thomas, founder of the Interfaith Drug Policy Initiative, religious faith can play a pivotal role in drug policy ? though not in the way Bush decrees.

Faith teaches that it's essential that America's drug laws be just and compassionate, Thomas wrote in the May/June issue of the interfaith journal, Fellowship. "People of faith may play an essential role in building public support for treating drugs as a health issue instead of a crime," he explained. "Regardless of whether or not it's immoral to use drugs, it certainly is wrong to punish people solely for using drugs. Personal morality issues should be addressed by the faith community and family, not by cops, courts and prisons."

Don't tell that to GW, however, who has escalated criminal drug law enforcement during his Presidency and overseen the arrests of nearly 5 million Americans for drug crimes ? most for no more than minor drug possession. Regrettably, like the Crusades of old where religious transformation typically occurred "by fire and sword," the Bush administration ultimately believes that today's drug users federally ordained path to redemption is best achieved by way of a jail house conversion.

This article originally appeared in Heads Magazine in Canada.
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Old 12 Aug 2004, 10:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'll side with Franchise 3000 and tell ya that weed is less likely to trigger a person's fighting instincts than alcohol or tobacco. I'll also go on record as saying that the tax revenue that stands to be made by the legalization of marijuana is out of this world.

A pack of cigarettes holds twenty sticks. Rolled as thick as a cigarette, a pack of weed could keep a hardcore stoner straight for a week...of course there are those brain deads who don't know when to stop smoking and could develop a pack a day habit, but you could honestly charge $30 to $50 for a pack of joints.

Think about it, marijuana is a fucking weed so a crop doesn't require too much attention (unless you're growing kind), which means production costs should be lower than that of cigarettes, meaning more room for Uncle Sam and his money grubbing little cronies. At the same time, $30 for a pack of joints will discourage many kids from starting up or overindulging if they do.

Legalizing marijuana put a lot of drug dealers out of business and it would bring billions upon billions of tax dollars home in the process. I can't believe this hasn't occured to any of those idiots with their heads in their asses on The Hill.

Besides, if you grow your own, don't tell anyone, keep the operation completely contained and smoke only on your property or at an event like a Phish concert or something, then it pretty much is legal, cuz who is going to stop you??

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Old 12 Aug 2004, 10:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The original reason for outlawing hemp had absolutely nothing to do with smoking the stuff. It was actually the cotton lobby that wanted to make it illeagal. They were afraid of competition.


Oh and to make sure everything is done right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Franchise
Not to mention Cigs and Liquer are way more harmful overall.
Hey, don't go there. If anyhting happens to the liquor I have a problem.
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Old 13 Aug 2004, 04:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I'am against it. Period.
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Old 14 Aug 2004, 12:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Erb is the purest high you can get. I dont see a problem with marijuana. When i smoke im not lazy i actually get more shit done. i say legalize and we could solve some of the economy's problems.
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Old 14 Aug 2004, 06:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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My thoughts on weed have changed over the past little while. Four years ago I would of said leagalize it. Tax the shit out of it, and let the govenment can control it and make some money off of it.

But I have a group of friends. They've been smoking it for about 4 or 5 years now. I have even tried it many times over the years. I don't mind it either. But I don't do it all the time like them. But when people say that it isn't a gateway drug, thats where there wrong. Well for some people at least.

For two years they just smoked weed. Then there like 'hey...we'll try shrooms, there natural too'. So they did zoomers for a bit. Then there like 'hey...we did shrooms why not try a bit of e'. So they did a bit of e. Now recently, they've been getting into meth and coke...which isn't cool. They really slowed down, but for awhile there they were hooked on coke. Now they only do it a few times a month. lol. That still doesn't sound to good, but from the amount they were doing before...its good.

But I know not everyone is like them and want to try new drugs so they can get more high for a longer period of time.

I still wouldn't care if they legalized it, but I just don't feel as strongly about it as before.
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Old 14 Aug 2004, 08:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Shrooms aren't bad for you...other than the fact that they're poisonous. However, meth, coke and ecstasy are very very bad. You don't have to take more than one dose to OD on ecstasy; coke and meth are what I like to call "quality of life altering drugs" where they, along with heroin, dominate your personality and interests until the user is a jobless piece of crap, living in an apartment that is totally devoid of furnishings, usually because they've been sold to support the habit.

However, don't confuse marijuana as the issue in your friends' cases necessarily. Some people have addictive personalities, people like that can go from a couple of drinks at the bar to a couple of hits off the crackpipe in just a few weeks. That's why it's good for anyone who does anything, natural or non, legal or illegal, to use moderation. If you can't moderate your intake, then you'll be consumed by whatever your poison is. Sex, drugs, video games, the internet, etc. etc.

Anyway, I'm far from an authority on the subject, but the bottom line is; "In all things, moderation." Moderation is also known as self control.

Late.
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