Is conservatism held back by the Religious Right?

[The Glue]

Please note that I do not post this lightly. I have given great ponder to this subject for about three years now, and haven't ever spoken or written about it to this point. In your counterposts, you can post as light as you wish (should you wish to), but just so you know this isn't something that popped up.

I love God, I love Jesus. It has to be said, I could go deeper, but since this'll be long anyway I'll cut it to that.

The younger vote is gaining power. While MTV and Hollywood try to convince kids that Conservatives are evil and Liberals are good, I think that common sense and a deeper knowledge of the facts in life naturally steer people toward Conservatism.

It's my thought, not a contention but a thought, that possibly, just maybe the younger voters are not seeing Conservatism for the slam dunk that it is because of hardline approaches on issues that have been forced by the Religious Right. For example.....abortion. I just heard you groan, Trev...oeo...please just hear me out before castigating me.

The way I look at it is this. I'm a parent and while I can't speak for The Glue of ten years ago when The Glue was a mere 18, I can say that since having my first kid at age 25, I couldn't even imagine abortion as an option for anything. Had I knocked some chick up straight out of high school, I don't know...and thanks go to Lifestyles Condoms for making sure I didn't have to find out.

However, there's kids having kids out there...and they're only growing in numbers. IMO, it's a rare person under the age of 23 that is mentally, financially and emotionally ready to support a child. In the neighborhood I grew up in, there were a couple of girls that'd had kids at 15.

I laugh when I talk to a first time expecting father and always tell them: "Kiss your personal freedom goodbye." That's a joke, but it's funny only because it's true. A 15 year old is not going to respond well to that in any situation.

Do we want more basically parentless kids out there, tapping more and more tax-paid resources? Do we want women going to back alleys and paying quacks with coat hangars to get 'taken care of' if abortion is ever again criminalized? And don't even tell me that wouldn't happen.

What kind of parent is made by a 15-17 year old who looks at their child and sees not a blessing, but a burden that stole the prime of his/her youth? What kind of life will a person like that actually (be able to) afford for their child?

Think that's an exaggeration?? Fourteen years ago, my parents' next door neighbor took in her crackhead daughter's six, count 'em six kids. The oldest was at the time seven and now she's got two kids of her own and moved out. They're two beautiful kids, I know because I see them whenever I visit my folks...because they still live there.

Last week, Alan Greenspan mentioned that such a large percent of Baby Boomers are retiring that Social Security holdbacks may be necessary to keep interest rates stable. Compare now as to when the Baby Boomers were born, and the world's population is multiplying almost exponentially. More kids with kids certainly won't give Social Security any relief. What to do about all these kids?

Am I talking about thinning the herd? I honestly don't know for sure, but possibly. Is that immoral? Yes and no. There should be enough resources available to sustain life well (food, clothing, shelter, guidance of parents, knowledge transfer through teaching) in a relationship before life is sown into it, IMO. That shrewdness of judgement is not being shown by sexually active people of child bearing age. But murder is wrong in every sense.

Unfortunately, the Religious Right has such a stranglehold on the Republican party that those (and many other) facts aren't ever going to be an issue that's openly discussed within the walls of The Right. Abortion is only one issue where the Religious Right has Conservatives forced into only one untenable position. If we could only let certain hardline issues go for now, I think the appeal of the Conservative party would catch on like flapjacks at fat camp.

Again, this is only a thought and I love Jesus and my kids. I am not saying that Conservatism should abandon the platform of morality that the Religious Right offers. There are so many sides of this issue to tackle, and I've really only gotten the tip of the iceberg. I could continue but it's late and if someone could discuss this further or fire a few "fuck you's" at me for what I just said (and I wouldn't necessarily blame you if you did)...I need some sleep.

Late.

[Dan Snyder]

MTV along with other TV outlets has been trying for years to shove liberalism down peoples throats, while some will take to it, others will get fed up and ignore it all together. Thats how I started out and believe me, they are many of us out there.

Personally, I believe in abstinance or at least putting a cap on it if you do get action. I have seen many friends of mine having babies and I see it all from the dudes leaving and the parents kicking the baby momma's out, but that is a rareity thank God. But I have not seen one abortion here, mainly because I live in a very christian/conservative area.


About the religious right, they are the Pubbies biggest base and they do control what the party does.

Just my 2 cents, nice post man.

[Trevelbond]

For example.....abortion. I just heard you groan, Trev...oeo...please just hear me out before castigating me.

Actually, I'm with you. Have been for some time. I think Roe V Wade should be overturned, but only because it's unconstitutional.

You can't get an abortion in Alabama right now anyway. All Roe V Wade says is that abortion can't be 100% illegal. It's still not widely available, which it ought to be.

That's my position as a taxpayer.

Barry Goldwater once said: “When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.”

Barry was almost never wrong.

I'm an atheist, and a Republican. I don't fit in well. I'm pro-abortion and gay marriage. I have no party to belong to.

This is a good thread. We should have this talk at the other joint.

[BOSTON]

Originally Posted by The Glue

While MTV and Hollywood try to convince kids that Conservatives are evil and Liberals are good, I think that common sense and a deeper knowledge of the facts in life naturally steer people toward Conservatism.

Now that there is a Democrat President we are back to Conservatives being cool and the Liberals are evil again.

Hence the April 15 Tea Party.....btw where were all the protesters back when gas was over $4.00 a gallon?

[The Glue]

Couple of things.

First and foremost, look at the non BOSTON posts in this thread. Thoughtful, intelligent and honest. Trev, DS and myself took time to make sure that what we put into this thread was truly worthy of a MOTM thread.

Now, look at your post. You claim that "Liberals are evil again" when in fact nothing is further from the truth. Take a look at CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, MTV, Rolling Stone, Yahoo News, any movie with Clooney or Penn in it...just about EVERY media outlet other than FOX News.

It's all Obama Kool Aid drinkers, and if you're not with them, then you are a redneck Republican warmonger who needs to be brought before the firing squad.

So yeah...your first sentence is a lie.

And your second sentence is garbage. There's no need to address it any further than that.

So yeah...thanks for dumbing down a thread that was actually pretty intelligent and well thought before you posted in it.

I'm sure you see it differently, but this illustrates exactly why I had you banned from MOTM all those times...you just don't put much if any thought into your MOTM posts, it's all empty (and honestly ridiculously stupid) rhetoric with you. That crap isn't intelligent, witty or funny. It's Elementary School nonsense.

Besides, Trev and I resolved to meditate more deeply on this elsewhere. Thread closed.