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The Problem With Our Schools Isn't The Money
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Old 26 Sep 2003, 01:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default The Problem With Our Schools Isn't The Money

Here we go again:
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Last week, I dug into some education statistics I got from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and showed Americans pay out more per pupil than any other nation in the world and yet, our teacher salaries don't necessarily reflect how much we're spending. While we're near the top in teacher salaries (we finished 5th), some countries that spend much less per pupil are able to pay their teachers more than we do (Poland & South Korea being the two primary examples).

While that was a point worth making, there's actually a more important point that can be gleaned from those OECD numbers and that is pouring more money into education doesn't necessarily produce better numbers. Here's a chart that will show you what I mean. (The teacher salaries are from the 'Primary education at the top of the scale with minimal training" numbers and the reading and math scores are comparisons between 15 year olds).



Just look at all the countries that spend far less than we do and get better results. South Korea spends $6000+ less per pupil than we do and has the best overall scores. Ireland spends less than half of what we do per pupil and has better scores that us -- significantly better in reading proficiency. The Brits spend just more than half of what we do and they're beating us easily.

Then there's teacher salaries. We nearly double the pay teachers receive in Sweden and we pay 2 and 1/2 times what Iceland does, and yet both countries outscore us. So given those numbers and the fact that our teachers salaries are already comparable with every other nation out there except South Korea, I don't think you even make a case that increasing teacher pay is an issue that is dramatically effecting the education our kids are getting.

So am I saying we should cut education funds or teacher salaries? No, although I'm of the opinion that it would be unlikely to hurt performance. The point of this post is that pouring more money into our school system IS NOT GOING TO FIX THE PROBLEM. Yet every time the mediocre performance of our public schools is brought up, we hear endless complaints that they're underfunded and that simply IS NOT TRUE. Throwing money at our public schools isn't the answer and whatever else we do -- I'd suggest vouchers personally -- can we at least agree that funneling more money into our education system isn't going to accomplish anything?
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I happen to KNOW that one problem here in California is illegal aliens. There are three million in this state and the burden is simply too great. I've personally sopken to teachers on this issue, and they seem to agree with me. But they woldn't dare say it to any one to the left of the spectrum or they would instantly be labeled a racist. Same with ER doctors.

What can really be done??
Thoughts??

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Old 26 Sep 2003, 04:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You know there is a issue going on around here in Australia where teachers are demanding a 25% pay rise and I'm sitting there asking myself, do they really need it? This doesn't really help chldren develop and learn if they are not in school, it's amazing how the government can be so greedy at times. The school systems can't take care for themselves so I don't see why the teachers need more money. I mean you don't become a teacher for the money, that would just be stupid.
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Old 26 Sep 2003, 09:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well, in the US the cost of living is pretty high compared to most countries. So that's why they're asking for more money, because I, as a bakery trainee average as much as your typical teacher. Which isn't right.

The illegal alien thing is just a quick blame for the righties who need a scape goat. If they were natural citizens they'd still be there in class.

The main problem is on how the US as a whole views and treats education and educators as a whole. Kids are flooded with images of people who never went to school or didn't really utilize their education who are rich and famous (musicians, athletes, ect) so they don't really have many role models that are pushing the "Stay in school and make something of yourself" mindset. That and the US gov't for the last almost two decades has shown that it would rather spend the money on stupid social programs and military spending than be bothered with a bunch of underachievers who they aren't profiting off of yet. If our leaders don't care about us, and our parents won't take the time to sit down and spend time with us in our schoolwork, then what in Hell are we supposed to care if we have C's and D's in school? Cartoons are on, we gotta go out and play, ect... and at that age not much else is all that important.
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Old 26 Sep 2003, 10:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
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^^Yes excellent point. The american atitude has become a problem. Kids with their pants halfway down their asses. Listening to their rape music.

Honestly..... Bring back the paddle!!!

Beat some respect into the bloody bastards. If those kids knew there was a whoopin waiting for them, they would pay attention.
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Old 26 Sep 2003, 10:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trevelbond
^^Yes excellent point. The american atitude has become a problem. Kids with their pants halfway down their asses. Listening to their rape music.

Honestly..... Bring back the paddle!!!

Beat some respect into the bloody bastards. If those kids knew there was a whoopin waiting for them, they would pay attention.
Did you even read the post? I said that it was the adults fault. Politicians, parents, ect... those people. If they don't care, how do you expect the kids to care. Beating them is not the answer, teaching them is. Otherwise you teach a bunch of kids that if they have a problem, hit it a bunch of times and maybe it will go away.
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Old 26 Sep 2003, 11:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trevelbond
^^Yes excellent point. The american atitude has become a problem. Kids with their pants halfway down their asses. Listening to their rape music.

Honestly..... Bring back the paddle!!!

Beat some respect into the bloody bastards. If those kids knew there was a whoopin waiting for them, they would pay attention.
I gotta ask you, do you ever think or revise what you write down before you post on a topic? You sound like some ranting biogoted lunatic, with completly un realialistic opinions and ideas!! And half the time you don't even look at others points of view properly, like that statement Evil Ryan just made. YOu missed it completly!!
Frankly i'm thinking your using MOTH just to procimlate many of your hatemongering facist democrtic-miinority-AC-immagrant-WTA-bashing and expect other wouldbe "superemicst" think and no expect others to get offended by this..when are you going to get it through your head not everyone here shares these opinions, and you get do offended when others start fighting back? Get a clue man. the majority of world and your country are strongly opposed to these ideas of yours.
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Old 26 Sep 2003, 12:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm not a hundred percent sure whats going on but on Education and Teacher Salaries I say...

The Teachers need raises
have you ever had a job where you felt you were underpaid?
If you have, then you probably didnt give a damn about that job.
Do you really want the people who educate your children, the future leaders of the world, to not give a damn about their job?
Teachers are often the unsung heroes, they do so much but get so little recognition for it.

Education is critical today, perhaps now more than ever.College degrees are crucial in finding a good job. Without a solid elementary and Secondary education how do we expect our children to achieve this?

When I see school levies turned down in votes I wonder how people can gather the balls to complain about things. Improvements cost money.

Did you know that there have been studies to determine how much money the teacher spends on supplies for their classroom?
The teachers on average spend a couple hundred dollars of their own money from their less than stellar pay checks to help their students.

and Trevelbond, why cant you ever post something I can agree with? Beat the kids??? Is that seriously your solution???

We should beat American Children???? Is this another one of Michael Savage's ideas? You want a beating for not paying attention? Fine let me get a paddle. cause you obviously have trouble paying attention yourself. Your views hop all over the place. You quoted and agreed with Ryan without actually having read his post. Seriously, what's wrong with you??
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Old 26 Sep 2003, 12:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Whoa! Teachers are the second set of parents for most kids. In rural communities, they are a huge part of the kids' lives. The problem in larger communities, ie metropolitan areas, is that the teachers have 35-40 students in each classroom and don't have the opportunity to be a part of their students lives. Trevelbond, yes, kids have taken a lot of things to the extreme. But parents haven't done much to keep them from it. The next best thing to help kids is the school system. Understaffed, overworked and some say underpaid, the teachers can't help but be overwhelmed by the responsibility. It's not a matter of Ireland paying less, or Poland speaking French, it is a matter of not enough people care about education. Kurt Angle, you are right about people voting no on levies, then complaining about the system. Politicians who try to make people accountable are crucified by the liberals and, in many cases by the so-called conservatists. Just my opinion......

side note: Wanderer, learn how to use spell checker!....lol!
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Old 17 Oct 2003, 05:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Dammit... now I have to re-type everything.

Beatings=Joke... ok, ok.

American Atitude= perpetuated by adults(celebrities, etc.)= Education not important.

Who allows kids to screw around??? Adults.

Who allows kids to listen to rape music and act the way that they do??? Adults.

I'll be more clear next time.

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