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Common sense vs higher ordered thinking?
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Old 01 May 2003, 02:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Common sense vs higher ordered thinking?

What do you think? I plan to do my dissertaion for doctoral school based on such a topic. i will state my opinion later on. Comments
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Old 09 May 2003, 09:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Give me some kind of analysis of the difference between the two and how you see them in conflict`and then I'll offer my opinion
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Old 10 May 2003, 11:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Mike C said in post # :
Give me some kind of analysis of the difference between the two and how you see them in conflict`and then I'll offer my opinion
Agreed. stating this alone while opens up a good duscussion is still rather vauge. Give us a case scenrio..
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Old 11 May 2003, 05:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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My centiments are exact, with the previous posts^

an example, would allow for more defined opinions.
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Old 11 May 2003, 09:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yeah..give an example
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Old 12 May 2003, 08:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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ok let me give you the basis of my question...throughout the education system, many educators have been ordered to treach higher ordered skills such as analysis, evaluation, syntesizing information (much of what you do in specialized college courses for honors students, graduate courses, ect). If the process startes at age 3 (when some children start a program called head start or daycare even), and the basic knowledge skills are not taught (the beginning three stages of blooms taxonomy, ex:knolwedge, when you apply some concrete information to a given task such as reciting your multipication table or being asked a question in a story about the color of a character's shirt that is explicitly placed in the story, where one could find the information without having to think analytically) . Does this mean that we are foicussing on creating a society in which cannot apply the simplest skills (such as common sense) to real life situations? what does this tell us about our future? Is this what we want for our children? What i am trying to find is the following, are we lacking common sense as a nation due to this higher ordered thinking prcoess due to the fact being that common sense is being overlooked in our schools? I don't know about you, but the majority of my professors lack common sense and some of my former fellow colleagues (grad students) seem to lose that as well as time went on. What is oging to happen to us as a society. This is the frigthening part to me of all of this. I see it happening already to 7 and 8 year olds.
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Old 13 May 2003, 12:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I think standardized tests (which rely on a mutliple choice format) are horribly detrimental to things like "common sense" the ability to reason that students should be taught as well. It's not so much a "higher-ordered" thinking in my mind, it's a fact-based teach to the tests plan that is killing off both intelligent reasoning (i.e. common sense) and creativity in American students.

This has been adapted to change in some states with short answer and essays graded in a very subjective manner, but with high-stakes testing becoming a possibility in California and other states kids will have to pass a test to even get out of high school. What good is creativity and critical thinking when you can't graduate high school because you weren't sure of a few history questions?
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Old 13 May 2003, 07:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Mike C said in post # :
I think standardized tests (which rely on a mutliple choice format) are horribly detrimental to things like &quot;common sense&quot; the ability to reason that students should be taught as well. It's not so much a &quot;higher-ordered&quot; thinking in my mind, it's a fact-based teach to the tests plan that is killing off both intelligent reasoning (i.e. common sense) and creativity in American students.

This has been adapted to change in some states with short answer and essays graded in a very subjective manner, but with high-stakes testing becoming a possibility in California and other states kids will have to pass a test to even get out of high school. What good is creativity and critical thinking when you can't graduate high school because you weren't sure of a few history questions?
perhaps but there was a time (according to my research and not that I am for standardized testing because it is a Pain in the Ass) when it included basic common skills. From an educators standpoint we are now required by the law to focus on the higher skills or thinking, and not create a balance where such things once stood. The other day i was teaching reading to all of the second grade classes (such as you would at the high school level with children changing classes) and we read this story that didn't have all the elemtns of a good story. I asked a simple question...who was the enemy of the park bench. The answer was no one and some of the kids came up with answers that were completel irrelevant because they were overly analyzing and trying to read in between the lines way too much instead of looking for the answer right in front of them. This is a of grave concern to me because the most basic skills our children will lack if there is only focus on higher ordered thinking skills. Especially in my field it is firghtening. These children are only in second grade and yet some of them are already lacking common sense due to this system, and it is bothersome.

You don;t want to undermine creativity but you don't want to undermine simple and basic knwoledge either(this is exactly what is happening). thats my point.
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Old 13 May 2003, 12:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Very good point. It always seems it's one or the other.

Common sense can only be determined with a standardized test if the test is void of all bias, which is basically impossible. Tests like these have never been completely subjective. They can't be.

It does seem that this new wave of learning is missing a basic point. Human intelligence is all relative. Everyone wants to be some sort of great thinker b/c that's what they're taught. Fact is, not everyone can be that way. Common sense is being swept under the rug, b/c it's not the "right" kind of intelligence. It's a sad state.
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Old 13 May 2003, 12:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Very good point. It always seems it's one or the other.

Common sense can only be determined with a standardized test if the test is void of all bias, which is basically impossible. Tests like these have never been completely subjective. They can't be.

It does seem that this new wave of learning is missing a basic point. Human intelligence is all relative. Everyone wants to be some sort of great thinker b/c that's what they're taught. Fact is, not everyone can be that way. Common sense is being swept under the rug, b/c it's not the &quot;right&quot; kind of intelligence. It's a sad state.
tell me about it. Its why i ponder what our future as a society and country will be if common sense is not seen as important as higher ordered thinking skills are. Take a look at some of the most "intelligent" people who have doctoral degrees and what not. Unofrtunately the majority of thees people lack common sense and its going to get worse.
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Old 13 May 2003, 12:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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tell me about it. Its why i ponder what our future as a society and country will be if common sense is not seen as important as higher ordered thinking skills are. Take a look at some of the most &quot;intelligent&quot; people who have doctoral degrees and what not. Unofrtunately the majority of thees people lack common sense and its going to get worse.
Oh, yeah. It's weird to see people, supposedly so smart, lack basic survival intelligence. There is a way to have a healthy balance of both, but most people miss that. Hopefully, it changes.
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Old 13 May 2003, 01:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I doubt it. not from what I see now and with what i see happening to the children. There has to be a balance and where we're heading is far from it.
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Old 21 May 2003, 01:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I have to split my opinion. We aren't exactly supressing all common sense, just that which would cause the world to make sense. I'm in high school, and if I had to pass a fucking test to get out, I would just drop out, because it is pointless to base 12 years of education on a triviality such as a pen-and-paper test. Higher-ordered thinking is crap, in my opinion. I'm sorry, but if there is a cut-and-dry way to do, say, a math problem, and the teacher wants a child to do it a hard way, then the person who put that in the curriculum ought to be fired.
When I graduate, I would like to be a teacher, but I'll be the last person to teach someone to take extra steps and waste time just because my government says so.

Off-hand remark: Scott Steiner majored in education. I wonder what his opinion on this is...
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Old 22 May 2003, 08:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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667 said in post # :
I have to split my opinion. We aren't exactly supressing all common sense, just that which would cause the world to make sense. I'm in high school, and if I had to pass a fucking test to get out, I would just drop out, because it is pointless to base 12 years of education on a triviality such as a pen-and-paper test. Higher-ordered thinking is crap, in my opinion. I'm sorry, but if there is a cut-and-dry way to do, say, a math problem, and the teacher wants a child to do it a hard way, then the person who put that in the curriculum ought to be fired.
When I graduate, I would like to be a teacher, but I'll be the last person to teach someone to take extra steps and waste time just because my government says so.

Off-hand remark: Scott Steiner majored in education. I wonder what his opinion on this is...
well as an educator i respect everyone'ds opinios but still feelthat common sense is being left for the back burner from what I am seeing in my own experinces with the children.
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Old 24 May 2003, 01:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Well, that's my point, that teachers are supressing common sense, and although it is more obvious (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) in lower schools, it can definetly (sp?) be seen in a high school environment.

[edit]Ok, screw it, my fault for not reading my own post. Teachers do supress common sense, I just wasn't using my head when I said they weren't.
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